LL-L "Orthography" 2004.11.15 (03) [E/LS]

[Lowlands-L]

======================================================================
L O W L A N D S - L * 15.NOV.2004 (03) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
http://www.lowlands-l.net * lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Rules & Guidelines: http://www.lowlands-l.net/index.php?page=rules
Posting: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org or lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Server Manual: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html
Archives: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html
Encoding: Unicode (UTF-8) [Please switch your view mode to it.]
=======================================================================
You have received this because you have been subscribed upon request.
To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
text from the same account to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or
sign off at http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================
A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
=======================================================================

From: jpkrause <jpkrause at sunflower.com>
Subject: Othography

Orthography as some of you know, especially you, Ron  ;-)  always seems
to make me quite bumfuzzled.  (For non-American English speakers,
bumfuzzled means confused in the extreme)  If I had my will to work, I
would eliminate the umlaut vowels altogether.  I often amuse myself by
going to the De Tuunkrüyper  (in my dialect De Tuunkjeenig) story and
reading the versions with umlaut vowels as though they were German.
Yes, this I admit betrays my formal schooling in German.
    I'll quote an example.   The first one is in Mennonite Plautdietsch.

“Och, Voda,” saije se, “hia kaum soon groota Beesa vebi.  Dee sag soo
schraikjlig un soo fertalig rietend uut.  Dee glotzt met siene groote
Uage en onset Nast ’enenn.  Doaderch hab wi ons soo jegruult.”

Here is another version of the same paragraph

„Och, Vadder", segt sey, „hyr köym even so ’n groten buman vör by. Dey
seyg’ so böys’ un schruterig uut! Dey gluup mit syn groten ogen na uns
nest herin. Daar hebt wy uns so vör verveyrd!"

If I had to read this story to a child, I don't know how I would get
"kaum" out of "köym."  If I were Supreme Low Saxon Philosopher King (and
thank goodness I am not! <grins>)  here's how I would have spelled that
same paragraph:

“Och, Voda,” seyt sey, “hyr kaum soon groota Beesa veby.  Dey sag soo
schraklig un soo fertalig rytend uut.  Dey glotzt met syne groote Uage
en onset Nast ’enenn.  Doaderch hab wy ons soo jegruult.”

My guess is this might not be satisfactory to our European listers whose
native language this is.  It would be interesting to hear a sound file
of someone reading the story from an ANS script.
Mien twee Ssent Jelt
Jim Krause

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Orthography

Hi, Jim, and thanks!

I can see your point looking at the the Mennonite (Plautdietsch) varieties
only, because, typical for far-eastern varieties (with Slavonic substrates)
they have unrounded the front vowels that in related dialects are writeent
with umlaut (ö > e, ü > i(e)).  In some dialects, Plautdietsch has
developed -- secondarily -- an _ü_ from /uu/, but it does not need to be
written as such since it is a regular allophone of /uu/.

So, thinking of your dialects isolation I would not use umlauts either, for
good reasons.  It's a different matter when you consider the rest of the
languages.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

================================END===================================
* Please submit postings to lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org.
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
  to be sent to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or at
  http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
======================================================================