LL-L "Etymology" 2004.10.24 (02) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 24.OCT.2004 (02) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Roger Hondshoven 2 <roger.hondshoven at pandora.be>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.09.18 (04) [A/D/E]

> From: Jo Thys <Jo.Thijs1 at pandora.be>
> Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.09.17 (01) [A/E]
>
> > The word canne could
> > be latinised from the Greek and introduced to local British Celtic
tribes
> by
> > Roman occupation who then passed it on to the new "Saxon" arrivals. OR
it
> > could have been brought into Frisian/Saxon lingua a lot earlier via
Roman
> > settlements on the continent. Is this a stupid thought?
> > Cheers
> > Peter Snepvangers
>
> Hei Peter and John, hei allemwol.
>
> For me too it seems plausible that 'canister' is Englishised, Latinised
> Greek maybe through science and gas canisters.
> The word 'canne' however to me doesn't seem a loanword from the Roman nor
> Greek
>
> In Dutch a 'kan' denotes a container (a can-tainer?) of fluids, and a
'kom'
> the smaller bowls from wich one eats soupe, ..., irrespective of the
> material of wich it's made.
>
> The verb 'kunnen" (being able to) is irregular in Dutch (kon- gekund /
> ik,jij, hij kan), and is best translated as 'being able to'.(e.g. ik kan
> zwemmen, ik kan komen).The regular verb 'kennen' (kende-gekend),"to know
> (someone)" is mostly used in relation with people while the irr.
> 'weten-wist-geweten' (cfr gr. oida) "to know (something)" is rather used
in
> combination with learned knowledge.
>
> Since food containers are invented millenia ago, and frequently used ever
> since, 'can/kanne/kanna' doesn't have to be a loanword at all, but could
be
> part of  the IE vocabulary (like 'bee'). Though 'a can' is differently
used
> in Canada, England, ... it's not a loan (from English) and refers in
> different groups to a different part of the broad range of (food)
> containers. Similarities between say English and Greek could result from
the
> same proces in which the meaning of the same IE word 'kanna' is slightly
> altered with the appearance of new types of food containers. For the verb
> 'to can/kennen' grossly goes the same since knowledge and social behavior
> also have changed drasticly.
>
> If 'a can' and 'to can' are cognate at all, in very ancient times some
> food(/fluid) containing objects and knowledge and capabilities had to be
> united in one thing or person. Could that be a woman, 'gyne' in Greek
(knaai
> in Dutch), who can bear childeren (in a fluid)(kin-der, kunne in Dutch),
> who handels the 'cans', who learn their childeren what they can and what
> they can't, and collect more knowledge (kennis) by living longer?
>
>  koffiekan, theekan, waterkan
> de pastoor kan ook, maar die mag niet (NLimb. joke)
>
> Groeten,
> Jo Thys

Hi Jo,

Flemish (East-Brabant) 'knaai' , next to 'knalle' (both meaning 'cunning,
wicked woman') being related to Greek 'gyne' is highly debatable. To my mind
the word is derived from French 'canaille', which in turn comes from
Italian 'canaglia', from Latin 'canem, canis' "dog". It is interesting to
note that in the same Flemish dialect a variant of the word 'canaille' is
used for men: 'kanje' (nj representing a palatalized n) , meaning "cunning
male person'.
Vriendelijke groeten,

Roger Hondshoven

----------

From: Roger Hondshoven 2 <roger.hondshoven at pandora.be>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.09.23 (02) [E]

> From: Kevin Caldwell <kcaldwell31 at comcast.net>
> Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.09.22 (06) [E]
>
> From: John Duckworth <jcduckworth2003 at yahoo.co.uk>
> Subject: Etymology
>
> Hello, Lowlanders!
>
> Mark wrote:
>
> "I have been reading the news lately and have come across a word that I
> have been curious about many times in the past.  The word is ruthless."  I
> have never heard it used in any other way, i.e., I've never heard the word
> "ruthfull" or just "ruth."  Is there some other Lowlands language that has
a
> relative of it?  Is it used in the sense of "full of ruth?"  "
>
> THe word _ruthful_ is used, as is the noun _ruth_ from which it is
derived.
> _Ruth_ means either compassion for what someone else is going through, or
> regret for one's own actions.
>
> These words go back to Middle English _ruthe_, which is derived from the
> verb _ruen_ ('to rue', 'to regret'), compare Old English _hrēowan_ (to
> affect with grief) and _hrēowian_ (to regret). .There was also another
> related word in Middle English, _rewe_, which is the same as the Modern
> English _rue_ (which can be either a verb or a noun): from the Old English
> _hrēow_. A cognate in Old High German is _hriuwa_ (sorrow).
> Back on Lowlands territory we have Old Saxon _hriuwi_, meaning 'sad', and
> various forms related to it: _hriulaeko_, _hriuwig_, _hriuwigmaed_, and so
> on, all meaning more or less 'sad'. There is a use in the poem 'The
> Heliand': _than stod thar ôk Iohannes iongro Cristes hriuui undar his
hêrran
> uuas him is hugi sêrag._  (I can't quite make out the meaning. Can you
help,
> Ron?) Compare also Middle Dutch _ruwelik_ (sad). I was trying to delve
into
> the recesses of my much-befuddled brain to think of some Dutch cognates,
but
> I am not sure.I know there is a word _ruw_, but I can't quite remember
what
> it means. Is it cognate with the other words I have mentioned?
>
> John Duckworth
>
> Preston, UK
>
> Hello John,

The OE hreow is cognate with Dutch 'rouw' "mourning", 'rouwen' "mourn",
'berouw' "repentance", 'berouwen'--"repent, regret, feel sorry for
something".
Kind regards,

Roger Hondshoven

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