LL-L "Anniversary" 2004.10.30 (06) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

======================================================================
L O W L A N D S - L * 30.OCT.2004 (06) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
http://www.lowlands-l.net * lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Rules & Guidelines: http://www.lowlands-l.net/index.php?page=rules
Posting: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org or lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Server Manual: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html
Archives: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html
Encoding: Unicode (UTF-8) [Please switch your view mode to it.]
=======================================================================
You have received this because you have been subscribed upon request.
To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
text from the same account to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or
sign off at http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================
A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
=======================================================================

From: Global Moose Translations <globalmoose at t-online.de>
Subject: LL-L "Anniversary" 2004.10.30 (05) [E]

Ron wrote:
> The original purpose for starting the List was to bring a group of closely
> related languages and cultures and their descendants *together*, to
explore
> similarities and differences, to stop thinking in terms of political
> borders, and to bring people together, natives speakers, learners and
> researchers.  Before the List was officially launched, it had began with
> Lowlands Saxon (Low German), Frisian and Dutch, then developed from there.

Then why exclude German and the Scandinavian languages, which are also very
closely related and often much more useful to explain certain etomologies
than other "Lowlands" languages are? I've been wondering this for a long
time... and, frankly - sometimes it looks to me like you want to exclude
German, especially the variety of High German spoken in Northern Germany,
because you are trying so hard to have Lower Saxon acknowledged as a
language in its own right that you do not particularly care to point out
just how similar it really is to German. Of course, this is your baby, and
your choice which languages to include... and no offense meant.

Gabriele Kahn

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Anniversary

Gabriele:

> Then why exclude German and the Scandinavian languages ...

Then it would be Germanic-L, which would be casting the net wider and would
overlap with lists that are devoted to German, Yiddish and North Germanic as
well to those that deal with Germanic in general.  Our vision at first was
bringing together those language varieties that are largely mutually
intelligbible, English and Scots, being descendants of these (not of German
and only later influenced by Scandinavian), came in as an afterthought
because their relevance comes up time and again.

We do refer to the Northern German dialects a lot, especially to Missingsch
dialects (which are a link to German).  I myself do it all the time and
indirectly encourage this.

We, especially I, refer to links with North Germanic a lot, especially in
contexts of mutual influence, with emphasis on Southern Jutish varieties
which, like Missingsch, represent a link or bridge.

Language contacts are a big thing on the List.  Besides contacts and
relations with German and North Germanic, we also talk about contacts and
mutual influences between our area and Celtic, Slavonic, Romance and the
various indigenous languages in which Lowlands languages came to dominate.

German and Scandinavian are not excluded from discussions; they are just not
parts of the focus.  Germanic is a well-known concept.  The Lowlands and
their specific features shared across political borders are a newer concept.
"The Low Countries" are an established concept, but this always excludes
Northern Germany (and its former extensions farther east along the Baltic
Sea), which tends to be treated as a less important part of Germany.  Here
it is a part of the Low Countries, the Lowlands.  Germanic Britain and
Ireland and their international transplants are extensions of this.

In brief, we focus, but we do not build a wall around our focus.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

================================END===================================
* Please submit postings to lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org.
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
  to be sent to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or at
  http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
======================================================================