LL-L "Etymology" 2004.09.12 (02) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Críostóir Ó Ciardha <paada_please at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.09.11 (08) [E]


Jo Thys wrote:
"In the same way they 're used in the vocative: papaatje, mamaatje, often
followed by a request. (dad-daddie?) (mate: /meit/,/meiti:/)
(Heart it in scotland last 'summer' dad! dad! daddie!!, like dutch kids
would call for pap!, pap!, pappie!!) Women seem to use this construction (or
the diminutive one) a lot more, and especially teenagers. 'Hebt gij een
sigaretje voor mij?". On Flemisch tv there was a (satirical) program, het
Leugenpaleis, where every time again words as 'hamertje, beitelje, zaagske"
(hammer, chisel, saw) were used to portray gay shop assistants. Maybe your
'bikie' is rather a 'softie' (also in dutch) than a small one."

Australian usage of _bikie_ (British usage _biker_) refers to a member of a
motorcycle grouping of the Hell's Angels type. In Australia these groups are
perceived to be part of the criminal underworld, so I was taken aback when I
heard the _-ie_ suffix, which in British or Irish English usually connotates
something pleasant, soft - even condescending (as in your Flemish gay
stereotype above). One would never hear _-ie_ used to denote someone or
something of serious concern in other Englishes (except perhaps _druggie_
for American _junkie_ but that is used as a form of condescension to those
involved). It wouldn't make sense. (For example, _killie_ for _killer_?
Impossible!)

Australians however do not appear to use the _-ie_ suffix in a condescending
fashion (insert stereotype of Australian egalitarianism here), but rather as
a simple abbreviation with no connotations - adverse or salutory - of any
kind. To Australians, _bikie_ is a formation of the same pedigree as
_postie_ (post man), _firie_ (fire man) or even _Aussie_, with no inferences
whatever.

Go raibh maith agat,

Criostóir.

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

John Feather wrote under "Language politics" today:

> Ron: On a related point, do you know if the Eng word "minge" comes
> from Roma "mindj" or "minsh"?

This is the general assumption, specifically that it is derived from
Anglo-Romany.  Related words have been imported into other languages, such
as Russian минжа _minža_.  In English it seems to go back to the turn of the
19th to the 20th centuries.  It is regarded as coming from a nasalized form
of what in Sanskrit is मिह् _mih-_ 'to urinate', related to Lowlands Saxon
_mygen_ (<miegen> /miig-/) etc. with the same meaning.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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