LL-L "Genealogy" 2004.09.28 (08) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 28.SEP.2004 (08) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Elsie Zinsser <ezinsser at icon.co.za>
Subject: LL-L "Genealogy" 2004.09.28 (01) [D/E]

Hi Ron and all,

>As you probably know, the autochtonous language varieties of Veluwe and
>Gelderland are Lowlands Saxon, as are those classified as "Achterhoeks."

Yes, I was aware of that although initially I suspected genetic memory :-)

Thanks for the additional weblinks. Marlene van Niekerk is indeed an
Afrikaans writer (Spokkelster; Triomf).

Regards,
Elsie Zinsser

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From: Global Moose Translations <globalmoose at t-online.de>
Subject: LL-L "Genealogy" 2004.09.28 (01) [D/E]

Sorry, I can no longer trace who originally wrote this:

>The question is: is it possible to tell from which part of the
>Nederlanden all the Vans came from...or is that just not realistic.
>They came over here in the 17. C. and civilized New Jersey as well
>as New Amsterdam.

I assume the word you meant to use was "colonize"? There were civilizations
living there before, and I think they could very well have done without a
bunch of "god-fearing" Puritans to cheat them out of their homes, land,
faith, language, culture, health, traditions, and lives...

Speaking for my youngest daughter, who is part Cherokee,
Gabriele Kahn

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From: burgdal32admin <burgdal32 at pandora.be>
Subject: LL-L "Genealogy" 2004.09.27 (04) [E]

> From: Bill Wigham <redbilly2 at earthlink.net>
> Subject: LL-L "Genealogy" 2004.09.26 (12) [E]
>
> Genealogy
> From:  Bill Wigham
> redbilly2 at earthlink.net
>
> Sorry, no Nelsons.  But while we are on the subject we do have, Van
> Tassels,
> Van Houtens,
> and Van Ripers, Speers, Freidrichs, u. Stegers (Steigers?) in the
> family
> tree.  The question is: is it possible to tell from which part of the
> Nederlanden all the Vans came from...or is that just not realistic.
They come from everywhere. I think that in the Netherlands the "van"
stands more alone than in Belgium.
(D: van Brabant/Van Brabant - V: Vanbrabant)
Look at this website in Belgium to see where all the same names are
found in Belgium:
http://www.familienaam.be/

>   They
> came over here in the 17. C. and civilized New Jersey as well as New
> Amsterdam.  Speer was also Dutch also.  Friedrich(s) and Steger may
> have
> been from Koeln.
> Cheers,
> Bill
> Westfield.MA
Groetjes
Luc Vanbrabant
oekene

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From: Brooks, Mark <mark.brooks at twc.state.tx.us>
Subject: LL-L "Genealogy" 2004.09.28 (01) [D/E]

Ah, Nijkerk!  The one in Veluwe.  I spent a short time there about 34 years
ago.  Here's a link to a story about it.  Scroll down to the story called
"The Long Short Journey."

http://marcosarroyos.blogspot.com/2003_01_19_marcosarroyos_archive.html
<http://marcosarroyos.blogspot.com/2003_01_19_marcosarroyos_archive.html>

Glory Days!

Mark Brooks

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From: Henry Pijffers <henry.pijffers at saxnot.com>
Subject: LL-L "Genealogy" 2004.09.28 (01) [D/E]

R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com> wrote:
 >
> the autochtonous language varieties of Veluwe and
> Gelderland are Lowlands Saxon, as are those classified as "Achterhoeks."
>
Ron, the Achterhoek is part of Gelderland. In Gelderland, there are 2
regions where Saxon is spoken, which are the Veluwe and the Achterhoek.
The Achterhoek is not a separate "thing".

> The long /ii/ in the name ("Niekerk" vs Dutch "Nijkerk") is consistent
with
> that too, though dialects of Flemish and some of Dutch proper have
preserved
> it too.  I wonder if it ought not be *"Niekark" then.  Or does the /er/ >
> /ar/ shift not apply that far west?
>
Maybe it should be "Niekark", but in the Netherlands placenames pretty
quickly became written in the Hollandic spelling.

> I suppose the city of Nijkerk is still called Niekerk in the Saxon-based
> dialects.
 >
I'd probably call it "Niejkaorke", if I ever mentioned the place.

regards,
Henry

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