LL-L "Idiomatica" 2005.04.17 (01) [E]

Sun Apr 17 19:21:43 UTC 2005

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: jonny <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2005.04.15 (01) [E]

Hi, Gary,

You wrote:

> . are there parallels in other
> lowland languages using a personal pronoun where it
> doesn't really belong - or does it?

Yes- but not very often.
In LS we say: 'Loot mi de Fingern doorvan.'; HG: 'Lass mir die Finger
davon.'; E: 'Keep off your hands from that.' Or:
LS: 'Du büst mi viellicht 'n feinen Frünnen!'; HG: 'Du bist mir ja ein
rechter Freund!'; E: 'You are _not_ a good friend of mine.'

Greutens/sincerely

Johannes "Jonny" Meibohm

----------

From: Roger Hondshoven <roger.hondshoven at pandora.be>
Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2005.04.15 (01) [E]

Hi everybody,

Dutch uses "dinges" in the same meaning. It is listed in Van Dale's Groot
Woordenboek der Nederlandse Taal.
I remember hearing or reading in English the word "thingamajig".

Roger
>
> From: Ian Pollock <ispollock at shaw.ca>
> Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2005.04.14 (01) [E]
>
> Hehe, true, it's a little bizarre when people talk that way, but I
> think cause and effect are a little mixed up here. People say that
> because they're too lazy to insert the actual entities they're
> discussing, but I don't think it's really affecting the language in any
> huge way. We have the same thing happening here in Canada, often. In
> fact I'd bet that most languages have some equivalent. In Russian it's
> это самое ('EtV 'samojE) or штука ('shtukV), in Spanish if I remember
> correctly it's "ese..." If that was being said frequently in Edinburgh
> as you say, I'd call it more of a cultural phenomenon with linguistic
> consequences, wouldn't you? Although I'll agree that with some speakers
> it affects the thought processes.
>
> Incidentally, a synonym of "thingy" in my dialect (Calgary, Alberta,
> Canada) is "dealie." Do any other dialects have this word?
>
> > I regard them and their ilk as such but then I am probably of a much
> > earlier generation than most of you folks. The most atrocious example
> > of all appears in Scots English, the ghastly 'Thingwy' which is used as
> > a substitute for any noun and is often used more than once in a
> > sentence..."Ah went tae thingwy's tae git a thingwy." was commonplace
> > in Working Class Edinburgh in my childhood. Like Orwellian Newspeak it
> > ultimately restricted the thought process and the vocabulary of the
> > users. Far from exclusive to the Working Class I even knew several
> > English academics who adopted it when resident in Scotland.
>
> ----------
>
> From: Pat Reynolds <pat at caerlas.demon.co.uk>
> Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2005.04.14 (12) [E]
>
> Hi all,
>
> You were talking about, well, whadyacallem?  Doobris (no idea how to
> spell that word - rhymes with blueberries, when pronounced with two
> syllables).  Widgets.  Was hoofer-doofer ever one of these words? I seem
> to remember it was, but now it has the specific meaning of a television
> remote control.
>
> Unfortunately, nominal aphasia means I use a wide variety of these
> words.
>
> What are their Dutch equivalents.  I would find them very useful for
> such sentences as 'Does it have a .... whotsit - you know, little window
> that is in the roof of a house'
>
> Best wishes to all,
>
> Pat
> --
> Pat Reynolds
> pat at caerlas.demon.co.uk
>    "It might look a bit messy now,
>                     but just you come back in 500 years time"
>    (T. Pratchett)
>
> ----------
>
> From: Kevin Caldwell <kcaldwell31 at comcast.net>
> Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2005.04.14 (12) [E]
>
> > From: Gary Taylor <gary_taylor_98 at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Lexicon
> >
> > Hi All
> >
> > Ron, you said
> >
> > "Don't people in Australia use "thingy" in the same way, or was that
only
> > in
> > my circles?  I thought I heard it used in England as well."
> >
> > Yup, in England I've used thingy before, and thingmyjig, and thingmybob,
> > and
> > plain thingmy and
> > wodyacallit, and...
>
> All those are used here in the US too, although I'd spell them
differently:
>
> Thingamajig, thingamabob, thingamy, whatchamacallit, plus whatsit, whosit,
> whositwhatsit, gadget, doodad, doohickey, doololly, whatchamadoodle,
> whatsisname, whatsisface, and plain ol' thingy.  Probably a lot of others
> too, but I can't think of them right now, and individual speakers often
> create their own variations.
>
> There's even a brand of candy bar called Whatchamacallit.
>
> > From: Tom Mc Rae <t.mcrae at uq.net.au>
> > Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2005.04.14 (01) [E]
> >
> > Only person I know who used that was from Durham.
> > Far as bloody Thingwy goes one Aussie friend uses it routinely but his
> > Dad was a Scots wheelwright who obviously brought it with him.
> > My major hatred here is the ridiculous 'At this point in time'. Why the
> > hell can't they just say something like 'Currently' or even 'Now'. I
> > notice US pollies have adopted this in recent years.
>
> Oh, Americans have been using that for decades when they are trying to
sound
> formal.
>
> The one that grates on my ear these days is "Back in the day".  Back in
what
> day?  What happened to "Back in the old days" or "Back when I was young"?
>
> Kevin Caldwell
>
> ----------
>
> From: Marsha Alley <marshaalley at msn.com>
> Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2005.04.14 (12) [E]
>
>
> "At this point in time."  A pet peeve of mine, also.  I remember it being
> popularized in politics and news reporting during the Nixon/Watergate era
> and considered it a part of the general air of obfuscation rampant then.
It
> spread to the general public here in the States and was quite common by
the
> late 70's - still is, unfortunately.  Sets my teeth on edge every time.
>
> According to http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/
> This redundancy became popular because it was used by astronauts seeking
to
> distinguish precisely between a point in time and a point in space. Since
> most people use the expression in contexts where there is no ambiguity, it
> makes more sense to say simply “at this point” or “at this time.”
>
>   From: Tom Mc Rae <t.mcrae at uq.net.au>
>   Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2005.04.14 (01) [E]
>
>   My major hatred here is the ridiculous 'At this point in time'. Why the
>   hell can't they just say something like 'Currently' or even 'Now'.
> ----------
>
> From: Gary Taylor <gary_taylor_98 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Idiomatica
>
> Me again...
>
> So with regards to our Ron saying 'whatyamacallit'
>
> an additional question to my last etymological one(and
> probably a more interesting one is) where did this
> 'me/my/mi/ma" etc. come from - grammatically it
> doesn't make a lot of sense when saying thing'my'jig,
> wodya'ma'callit etc... are there parallels in other
> lowland languages using a personal pronoun where it
> doesn't really belong - or does it? - I'm willing to
> be proved wrong
>
> Gary
>
> http://hometown.aol.com/taylor16471/myhomepage/index.html
>
> ----------
>
> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Idiomatica
>
> Ian wrote above about a Russian word:
>
> > штука ('shtukV),
>
> Apparently it comes from German _Stück_ 'piece', 'item'.
>
> > Incidentally, a synonym of "thingy" in my dialect (Calgary, Alberta,
> > Canada) is "dealie." Do any other dialects have this word?
>
> I've heard my Canadian relatives (in Southern Alberta, who also lived in
> Calgary until recently) use this.  It struck me as only a slightly strange
> the first time I heard it, but it was immediately understandable,
> reminiscent of "dealibob," another such term used in the U.S.
>
> Great to hear from our ... Whatyamacaller ... Pat above.  Hope things are
> going well for you, Pat.
>
> > Unfortunately, nominal aphasia means I use a wide variety of these
> > words.
>
> I confess that that makes at least two of us.  I know our Tom would just
> stomp out in utter disgust if he had to listen to the two of us.
>
> Interesting etymological question there, Gary.  I suspect "my" to have
> slipped in there for some reason.
>
> By the way, thanks for the congratulations, Gary.  (I forgot to say it
last
> night because I was in a rush.)  The sight of those very ancient Ukrainian
> ladies holding miniscule American flags was an unexpected bonus, as was
the
> jolly company of my little "sub-possy" (from Canada, Italy, Ethiopia,
> Ukraine, Vietnam, Germany, Argentina, England, Bangladesh and Israel)
during
> the long waits.
>
> Regards,
> Reinhard/Ron

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