LL-L "Resources" 2005.08.17 (01) [E]

Wed Aug 17 15:26:27 UTC 2005

======================================================================
L O W L A N D S - L * 17.AUG.2005 (01) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
http://www.lowlands-l.net * lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Rules & Guidelines: http://www.lowlands-l.net/index.php?page=rules
Posting: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org or lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Commands ("signoff lowlands-l" etc.): listserv at listserv.net
Server Manual: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html
Archives: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html
Encoding: Unicode (UTF-8) [Please switch your view mode to it.]
=======================================================================
You have received this because you have been subscribed upon request.
To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
text from the same account to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or
sign off at http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================
A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
=======================================================================

From: Sabine Cretella <sabine_cretella at yahoo.it>
Subject: Plattdüütsch - nds - the story up to now 17.08.2005 [E]

Hello from Italy!

I was not sure in which language to write, so I choose English as it
seemed to be the most used one on the list. I hope the way I created the
subject is fine.

As I wrote in my introduction message to the listowner I am working on a
glossary with Plattdüütsch terminology that has been donated to
Wiktionary be Werner Eichelberg. It is online on his website
http://www.aus-stade.de. The thing is Werner created this glossary out
of texts in books and newspapers and so of course there are different
ortographies included. And like in any book or dictionary there are also
some wrong spellings, if we can call them so since there is no real
correct way to spell Plattdüütsch, but only some standardised ways and
many non-standardised ways.

I did a mayor error when I wanted to pass this list to the
nds.wiktionary  since it caused a never ending discussion - people there
tell me that the list we have is crap, not good at all, does not comply
to their standard way of writing/thinking.

I also wrote to all 16 universities that have Platt in their programme
and contacted the Institut für niederdeutsche Sprache in Bremen. Of
course many are on holiday and I received only four answers up to now.
One told me he cannot help since he does not know enough about this and
the other three told me that there is a mixture of ortographies and on
some words some research will be necessary - and the most important
thing: no-one of them talked about crap. Of course this is private
correspondence and even if they (people of the nds wiktionary) tell me a
thousands of times I am not going to give out the names of the
professors since this, to my opinion, would be violation of privacy.
When we reach a state that they definitely contribute and I need to
attribute their information to a person of course I will do so - or
better I will ask them if I may use their name.

The discussion is never ending and since there's also a lot of work in
this period I just don't answer for now (also because a co-wiktionarian
is already talking with them).

Now why am I on this list: I would like to try to get order in the
terminology we have, and of course add further terminology. I want to
delete only those that are really 100% wrong (and I hardly anyone can be
told to be wrong, but just be categorised as "personal spelling of an
author" and that's it.

In order to do this we created the possibility to link to present texts
where these words are used. This means that basically any internet
ressource can be used as example, but we would like to go further - if
there are texts that could be released under GFDL (GNU Free
Documentation Licence) or texts without copyright (when authors died at
least 70 years ago)  we would like to add them to wikisource - a project
where literature can be stored. As for present writers of Platt this of
course is problematic but we can at least give a reference  note that a
certain word is used by Author ABC in his work DEF.

The glossary that actually is online can be found here:
http://it.wiktionary.org/wiki/Categoria:Parole_in_basso_sassone

The already categorised words can be found in the subcategories:
http://it.wiktionary.org/wiki/Categoria:Parole_in_basso_sassone_-_ortografia_secondo_Sass
http://it.wiktionary.org/wiki/Categoria:Parole_in_basso_sassone_-_ortografia_proveniente_dal_M%C3%BCnsterland

When you login the user interface that now of course shows Italian can
be set to any language like English, German, Spanish or whatever is
present.If you have problems I can create an account for with the user
name you give me add a password and set the user interface to the
desired languages - this would make it easier for you. Of course
afterwards your password can then be changed.

My questions to you: can you help me to categorise what we have (at
least as much as possible)? Does anyone have further vocabulary (if
possible already categorised or in one spelling only)? I can easily
upload lists to integrate things.

Of course also other language glossaries are welcome - what I always try
to say: even one word a day done by 1000 people anywhere in the world
means 365000 words a year.

Now you are maybe wondering why I do that on the Italian wiktionary - it
is one of those where I can delete articles if needed, where I can lock
entries, where I am admin. The data collected on the Italian wiktionary
anyway will be present in the Ultimate Wiktionary as soon as the
programming is ready - this means in some months time - and Ultimate
Wiktionary (maybe ultimate is not the right name - it will very likely
be re-named when going live) means that all words in all languages are
present and that we will have user interfaces in all available languages
- and the availability of a language only depends from people inserting
for example translations into a specific language for "main page" ,
"recent changes" etc.

So don't forget: even if you have terminology that is not part of
Plattdüütsch, where I am actually working on for now, it is highly
welcome since any minor language has the same right to survive and to be
brought to future generation.

I know, this mail is quite long and it can happen that I will not
immediately answer to your answers - sometimes my twins and my work just
take all of my time.

Thank you and have a great day!

Best wishes from the Amalfi Coast!

Sabine

*****
Sabine Cretella
Translations IT-DE, EN-DE
s.cretella at wordsandmore.it
skype: sabinecretella

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Introduction

Ciao/Hallo/Moin, Sabine!

I suppose all of the above greetings apply.  Welcome to the List!  It's 
great you joined us.

The only thing I can see "wrong" with the list so far is that it is a 
mishmash of spelling.  My suggestion is to add variant spelling to each 
item, which should not be difficult or terribly time-consuming.  (As you 
probably know, there is no standard spelling, though some pretend there is.)

Congratulation on the effort!  Please don't let lack of support or 
dismissive attitudes deter you.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

==============================END===================================
* Please submit postings to lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org.
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
  to be sent to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or at
  http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
====================================================================== 