LL-L "Phonology" 2005.02.06 (04) [E/LS]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 06.FEB.2005 (04) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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From:  jonny <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2005.02.06 (02) [E]

> From:  R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Phonology
>
> I wrote:
...
> en /oo/ and /ou/ is lost.  The
> pronunciation is now uniformly  [o.U], [O.U], [e.U], etc.
> ...
> Regards,
> Reinhard/Ron

No, Sir! I guess, You didn't hear our native people since long times. No
such elagitarianism in our region, near Cuxhaven. We still pronounce,
for example:

"de Hoa:n" (with a falling, dropping  "a")=("the cock")
"dat Hou:n" (with a falling, dropping "u")=("the hen")
"de Mou:nd" (with a falling, dropping "u")=("the moon, month")
"dat Bau:t" (with a falling, dropping "u")="the boat"
and so on.

Perhaps I did'nt completely understand all Your theories? It's really
hard for me- in special I am not familiar with those phonetic letters
(though- it's not so difficult to understand, but very complicated to
write.)

Greutens

Johannes "Jonny" Meibohm

----------

From:  R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Phonology

Moin, Jonny!

> No, Sir! I guess, You didn't hear our native people since long times.

Tjer, iehr dat ik Di rejell antern do, froog ik Di mool gau wat, un ik do
dat op Hamborgsch, dat door ok keen Twiewel bi öberblifft. Du büst jo nu
wull nich een von den Slag "Platt"-Snackers, de, wenn ik mool wat seggen do,
wat nich no jem ehr Meug oder Verstohn is, mi ümmer fuurts ünner de Nees
rieben doot, dat ik wiet weg bün, dat ik de Sprook verliehrt heff. Wenn jo,
denn kriggst een an'n Dassel (wenn ok nich so doll, dat Du glieks ümkippen
deist). De Oort Schiet heff ik satt. Dat is foken so'n Oort
Kompetenz-Ünnergroben, so'n Aflenken von een sien egene Unsekerheit. Ik will
mi nich dick doon, will nich seggen, dat ik allens weten do, man 'n Barg
afweten von dissen Kroom do ik woll, tominnst von de Theorie. Tjer, wat nee
is bi de Snackeree, dat warr ik nich ümmer glieks künnig, man künnig warrn
do ik dat iehrder oder loter woll, wiel dat ik güntsieds'n groten Diek 'n
Barg Lüüd heff, mit de ik ok foken snacken do (an'n Klöönkassen oder bi'n
Beseuken). Nu hest dat villicht nich so meent, man ik wohrscho Di un annere
liekers. Man ... jo oder nee – leef hebben do ik Jo liekers; dat geiht nich
anners.

> "de Hoa:n" (with a falling, dropping  "a")=("the cock")
> "dat Hou:n" (with a falling, dropping "u")=("the hen")
> "de Mou:nd" (with a falling, dropping "u")=("the moon, month")
> "dat Bau:t" (with a falling, dropping "u")="the boat"

This is interesting data, and it seems you pretty much understand what I'm
trying to say.  I did say something along the lines of "by and large." This
allows for some diversity, just refers to a general tendency or trend --
which tends to be most developed where language decline has progressed
farthest, such as in Hamburg. Oftentimes it also depends on a speaker's age
and competence.

What seems to be going on in your particular dialect looks like a
transitional stage. Diphthongization of /oo/ by rule does take place, but
original /ou/ remains distinct from it.  By and large, this is consistent
with my theory whereby monophthong /oo/ becomes dipthongized.  In this case,
instead of leveling with /ou/ (as e.g. in Hamburg, Olland, Veerlannen,
etc.), it remains distinct, since /ou/ is realized as [aU] (perhaps shifted
to this *in order to* preserve the distinction).

This is an interesting set of data, as I said, and I thank you for that,
Jonny.  This is the type of information we need.  (And this is why we need
lots more translations of the wren story for the anniversary project,
preferably with sound files.)

What surprises me a bit is _Hohn_ 'chicken' as /hoon/ [hoUn] rather than
expected */houn/ [ha.Un].  In the case of "boat" I may have been mistaken.
It's underlyingly /bout/, not */boot/.  (This is where my Hamburg background
makes it hard for me, because we don't distinguish /oo/ and /ou/, while the
distinction is maintained elsewhere, even not far away, such as at the mouth
of the Elbe by Cuxhaven.)

So, Jonny, let me quiz you by giving you a few tentative pronunciations in
your dialect.

/laat/ [loat] 'late'
/kraam/ [kroa.m] 'stuff'
/aven/ ["?oa.b=m] 'stove', 'oven'
/faarn/ [foa.Vn] 'to drive', 'to ride (a vehicle)'
/soo/ [zoU] 'so'
/boon/ [boU.n] 'bean'
/stroom/ [stroU.m] 'river', 'stream'
/dood/ [doUt] 'dead'
/doun/ [daU.n] 'to do'
/boun/ [baU.n] 'to build'
/loupn/ ["laUp=m] 'to walk', 'to run'
/fout/ [faUt] 'foot'

Which ones are correct, and which ones are incorrect?

Thanks a lot for your help, Jonny!

Kumpelmenten,
Reinhard/Ron

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