LL-L "Etymology" 2005.07.29 (01) [D/E]

Fri Jul 29 14:58:40 UTC 2005

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
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From: Luc Hellinckx <luc.hellinckx at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology"

Beste Ron en Jaqueline,

You wrote:

> Jacqueline:
>
>> The closest I can come to that is the word "puik" This can be used in
>> the
>> sense of Excelllent!, but is also used to describe good quality as in
>> "puike
>> waren" (merchandise of good quality)
>
> This must be related to Low Saxon _puyk_ (<püük> [py:k]) 'proper',
> 'clean',
> 'neat', 'spruce', 'trim', 'natty', etc.  It is contained in _puyk-vayn_
> (<püükfein>) 'proper', 'posh'  (_vayn_ 'posh' being a German loan
> contrasting with native _vyn_ <fien> [fi:n] 'fine', 'delicate', 'thin').
> German has _piekfein_ in the same sense, but does not have _piek_ by
> itself
> (though the noun _Pieke_ 'pointed instrument', 'pike', and these seem
> suspiciously Low Saxon, for otherwise I'd expect *_Peike_).  I wonder if
> this _puik_ = _puyk_ = _*piek_ is related to English "peak" (= point,
> top),
> which in English is known only since the 16th century (Lowlands loan?)
> and
> appears to be related to both "pike" and "beak."  (This is a complex
> one!)

Puik: mnl. puuc (1406: puuck leder) > mnd. pûk. Schots /pick/ is 'het
beste van iets' en hangt samen met /pikken/; zo hoort /puik/ bij mnl.
/ûtepûken/ 'uitlezen' en mnd. /pûken/ 'prikken, pikken' > 'uitlezen'.

Pikken: mnl. /picken/, vgl. mnd. nhd. /picken/, eng. /to pick/, on.
/pikka/ met verscherpte k naast mnl. /pêken/ 'houwen', afg. van /pêke/,
/pîke/ 'pikhouweel'. Ondanks de grote verbreiding van hetzelfde woord in
het Romaans (fra. /piquer/, sp. port. /picar/, it. /piccare/ 'steken')
hoeft niet gedacht te worden aan ontlening in welke richting ook.

(from 'De Vries en De Tollenaere').

Btw, _pikken_ means 'to nick', 'to steal' in Brabantish.

Kind greetings,

Luc Hellinckx

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From: David Barrow <davidab at telefonica.net.pe>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.07.28 (08) [D/E/LS/German]

>> Utz had responded to Jonny's question about _uut_ and Missingsch _aus_
>> ("out") in the sense of "finished," "exhausted."  So in his (Bremen)
>> and my (Hamburg) Missingsch "to be _alle_" ("all") means to be
>> finished/exhausted," also "to be bushed/nackert(sp?)" in England
>> English, "to be wasted" in American English (not in the sense of
>> "drunk").  Yesterday I remembered that we also use Missingsch _aus un
>> alle_, from Low Saxon _uut un al_ ("out and all") to mean "all gone"
>> or "all/totally exhausted," also meaning "finito," "that's the end of
>> that."
>>
>> _Alle_ ("all") in the sense of "finished," "gone" or "empty" is one of
>> the first words a North German child learns, or used to learn.  You
>> show the little one the empty cup or plate after drinking or eating
>> and say _Alle!_ until the child learns to say it.  I take it this is
>> northern-specific.  Or am I wrong?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Reinhard/Ron
>
Ron,

Since you didn't include what I wrote, here it is again :-)

'knackered'  from knacker: a buyer of worn-out old horses for slaughter.

David Barrow

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From: Theo Homan <theohoman at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.07.28 (01) [E/LS]

> From: Luc Hellinckx <luc.hellinckx at gmail.com>
> Subject: LL-L "Language varieties"

[...]
>*stul*: znw. v. (zuidndl.) 'kluit boter; stuk, lap',
>(noordholl)'koolplant om uit te zaaien', (drents)
'turfklomp', Kiliaen /stulle/,
/stolle/ 'brok, opgenaaide lap', oostfri. /stulle/
'stok, brok, klomp',
ohd. /stollo/ 'steunsel, post' (nhd. /stolle/,
/stollen/ 'korte dikke
stok als steun; een dikke vorm van koek, vgl.
Christstolle) behoort tot
de groep van /stal/.

[...]

>A couple of years ago, Dr. Frans Debrabandere also
wrote a (very good
imho) etymological dictionary of West-Flemish; this is
what he says:

>*stul*; (DB, K), *stil* (K), zn. m.: klomp (boter,
onder hoge glazen
boterstolp). Meestal samenst. /beuterstul/, /-stil/.
De ontronde vorm
/stil/ komt voor op Overleie (K). Mnl. /stolle/
'stuk', Vroegnnl.
/stolle/, /stulle/, /stuck/, /lap/ 'frustum, pars
assuta'(Kiliaan). Os.
/stollo/ 'gestel', Ohd. /stollo/ 'stut, (deur)post',
Mhd. /stolle/
'stut, gestel, post', Mnd. /stolle/ 'horizontale
mijngang', D.
/Stollen/
'langwerpig kerstgebak'. Verwant met Gr. /stêlê/
'zuil, post'; bij Idg.
/*stel-/ 'stellen'.

-------------

Hallo,

Sorry dat ik reageer. Want dan zit ik weer op glad ijs. {Anderen trouwens 
ook.}
  Maar het lijkt me eerder dat hier 2 'stul'len samen zijn gaan lopen.
  Wat die ene 'stul' betreft: hierbij wordt steeds 'klont boter' gegeven.
Deze 'stul' zal toch wel thuis horen in de woordfamilie van 'stollen'.

vr.gr.
Theo Homan

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From: Ian Pollock <ispollock at shaw.ca>
Subject: Etymology

Subject: Etymology
From: Ian Pollock (ispollock at shaw.ca)

I was wondering if anyone knows anything about the "a-" verbal prefix
in English - its geographical distribution (just USA?) its meaning and
etymology. What I mean is the prefix so often found in Bob Dylan's
songs, e.g.,
It's a hard rain's a-gonna fall;
The times they are a-changing.
OED doesn't seem to list this one.
Also please let me know if my format for this post is correct.

Cheers,
-Ian

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Sorry about the omission, Dave, and thanks for being nice about it.

Theo:

> Sorry dat ik reageer.

Een verontschuldiging is niet noodzakelijk, beste Theo! Uw reacties zijn 
altijd heel interessant, een genoegen te lezen en van te leren.

Hello, Ian!  Great to hear from you, too.  The posting submission format is 
great, except that the "From" and "Subject" lines are reversed, which is why 
I left them and put the standard one above it, as an instructional example 
for everyone.  I much appreciate you caring to do it right, Ian.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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