LL-L "Names" 2005.03.02 (11) [E/Cornish]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 02.MAR.2005 (11) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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From: Sandy Fleming <sandy at scotstext.org>
Subject: "Names" [E]

> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Names
>
> What I find rather fascinating in this connection is the "English,"
> apparently really Scots, surname Fleming (yes, as in Sandy Fleming).
> Apparently it was first given to early Flemish immigrants to Britain
> (possibly including people from Zealand and Brabant), mostly textile
workers
> and other types of specialist artisans.  However, I'm told that many or
most
> of these workers reached Scotland via Wales, were they had settled earlier
> (and were called _fflemeg_, I assume).  Many of them were not considered
> Flemish in Scotland but Welsh, hence the surnames Welsh, Walsh, etc.

Also Wallace, eg Sir William Wallace.

"Fleming" is Fleemin /'flim at n/ in Scots (yes, even modern Scots - it's what
I'm normally called in Scotland).

A well-known 'Fleemin' is James Fleemin, who was the Laird of Udny's fool.
He was the last fool in Scotland (I'm sure :)

Another famous James Fleming was the sole survivor of Custer's regiment at
the Battle of the Little Big Horn. He was a messenger that Custer sent back
with a message before the battle.

To let my mind wander on that topic, I was reading an interesting article in
a magazine recently that said that Custer's defeat at Little Big Horn might
have been due to a language error.

It seems that Custer and his wife spent some time at a school for deaf
children and there Custer learned to communicate with the children in sign
language. Unfortunately he made the very common mistake of thinking that
sign language is universal and that this would help him to communnicate with
his Indian Scouts.

He must have been able to see that Plains Sign Talk was very different but
it's true that certain kinds of sign can be similar between sign languages
and he perhaps thought that if two signs were the same in different
languages then their meanings must also be the same.

Thus when an Indian Scout reported "large numbers" of Sioux ahead, he took
it to mean "very few" and pressed on.

Sandy
http://scotstext.org/

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From: Críostóir Ó Ciardha <paada_please at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Names" 2005.03.02 (06) [E]

Screvaz agon Ron:
"Don't tell me this has coalesced with MacAlasdair ("Son of Alexander")!
Certainly, I would expect the /n/ to assimilate to the following /l/."

Hen ew gweere, me a breder. Certainly the disappearance of [n] in such
situations is standard in Scottish Gaelic and most Irish dialects, even
where such loss is not shown orthographically. One example of this the
anglicisation of the place name _Léim an Mhadaidh_ 'Dog Leap' as _Limavady'
rather _Limanvady_, reflecting its actual pronunciation. I would imagine
_Mac a' Leisdeir_ to be anglicised as McAllister, as you suggest.

On the matter of Flemishness: according to de Bhaldraithe, the Irish for
_Fleming_ is _Pléimeanach_. Irish speakers would analyse _Fleming_ as
consisting of an ethnic marker syllable _Flem_ backformed to _ Pléim_
because of the mutational needs of language, followed by an abstract suffix
similar to Irish _-án_. To these would be added the standard adjectival
ending _-ach_ (related to _-ish_ in English). Similar processes can be seen
at work in _an Bhriotán_ and _Briotánach_ for English 'Br ittany, Breton'
and in the surname _Ó Brosnacháin_ 'Brosnahan' in which the _-áin_ is a way
of creating a proper name from the description _brosnach_, someone from the
area of _Brosna_ or _Brosan_.

Hag:
"Oy, vey iz mir! The precedents I set! The monsters I created!"
Na lever henna, a soce!  ... mar lever nye en Gurnoack: onen hag oll! E feth
gwell. Da lower... mar pledge? Mar pledge teag?

Murrastawhye,

Criostóir.

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Names

Screvaz agon Kitto:

> Na lever henna, a soce!  ... mar lever nye en Gurnoack:
> onen hag oll! E feth gwell. Da lower... mar pledge?
> Mar pledge teag?

Paramour, a soce! Ty yw neves drok hedhyu ...

Mes ... da lower, henn yw gwir, y'm brys vy.  My a woer.  Onen moy po le?
Pah!  Ty a yll hedhy!  My a garso gothvos moy, mes lemmyn my yw sawthanas
...  My yw dallether.

Otta jy, gweles an negys kens yndan "Seasonal" a hedhyu, mar plek.

Gwro kelmy a hollan thewh, Kitto, a sos, tereba nessa!

Reinhard/Ron

P.S.: Ple'ma agan Daniel?

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