LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.03.10 (01) [E]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 10.MAR.2005 (01) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at WORLDONLINE.NL>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.03.09 (02) [E]

Yes, Marco is right. I meant Skepi (Essequibo)in stead of Berbice Dutch.
And Skepi was the one with all the Igbo vocabulary, I think that's a
language from Nigeria. As you know the Virgin Island Creole of that former
Danish (!) Caribbean Colony is called Negerhollands = Negro Dutch. The old
names for Sranan Tongo are Neger-engels = Negro English, or Takitaki "talk-
talk". Y'e taki Sranan = do you speak ST?
Papiamentu is the Spanish/Portuguese based Creole of the Dutch Antilles
Curaçao, Aruba and Bonaire, and that mean "talking", from papia = to
speak/talk. Bo ta papia Papiamento - do you speak Papiamento?

Maybe Marco can ask one of his ST-speaking friends for a Wren translation
in that Creole? Ron asked me before but I can't think of anyone anymore
who could do that properly...

Btw, what are the Zeeland dialectical features in Skepi and Berbice Dutch?
I've seen Negerhollands texts but the other two I don't recall so very
clearly...
I know that many people from Zeeland -including my own mother- use to say
that Afrikaans is so much like Zeelandic too, maybe because both share the
pronoun 'ons' = D. wij = E. we? THE Zeelandic shibboleth is:
ons Zeeuwen, ons ben zunig,  D. wij Zeeuwen, wij zijn zuinig, A. ons
Seelanders, ons is suinig (?) = lit. Us Zeelanders, we are thrifty
Although many (most)Zeeland dialects don't even use 'ons' in that way, but
something like 'me', 'wulder' etc.

Actually Afrikaans is closer to (older) South Holland dialects, especially
those from around Dordrecht, as Kloeke proved in Herkomst en Groei van het
Afrikaans than to Zeelandic.

mee de hroeten van Ingmar Roerdinkholder

Marco Evenhuis bin skrefi:
>
>Ingmar stated:
>
>> There is (was) another Creole language, Berbice Dutch, in Surinames
>neighboring country (former British) Guyana that was based on
>> Dutch but had kept a lot of words in it from one African language, Igbo.
>
>Actually, there were two so called Dutch Creole languages in Guyana:
Berbice
>Dutch and Skepi Dutch. The word 'Dutch' in this respect is not very
accurate
>though. Most vocabulary in Skepi and Berbice is Zeelandic. No wonder
>considering the fact that colonies as Berbice, Essequibo and Demerary were
>actually privately owned Zeelandic enterprises. Both varieties still have
a
>handful of speakers. Strangely enough, these are mainly Indians. Their
>people learned these languages to be able to trade with people inside the
>(former) colonies.
>The vocabulary of the Dutch Creole of the Virgin Islands is also
>predominantly based on Zeelandic and West-Flemish dialects, but has a
>somewhat more complicated background. The last 'natural' speaker of this
>language died in 1996, but a local linguist learned the language and
speaks
>it fluently. A lot of recordings were made of the last speaker, so at
least
>we know what the language sounded like. In fact, I tested one recording on
>some elderly people in Zeeland and they were able to understand most of
the
>conversations. Mainly because they were about everyday 'rural' subjects, I
>guess.

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From: Críostóir Ó Ciardha <paada_please at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2005.03.09 (02) [E]


Ingmar wrote:
"...children will pick up a lot of Sranan as a kind of streetwise languages,
and use it in their peer group too. In fact, a lot of Sranan and Suriname
Dutch words and expressions are used nowadays in slang and generally used by
teenagers and adolescents of all ethnic groups, Dutch, Afro-Caribbeans,
Arabs and Turkish e.a. The last two groups have contributed to this jargon
as well with their own words etc."

That sounds very almost identical to the role(s) played by some of the West
Indian creoles in Britain.

Criostóir.

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