LL-L "Games" 2005.05.25 (07) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

======================================================================
L O W L A N D S - L * 25.MAY.2005 (07) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
http://www.lowlands-l.net * lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Rules & Guidelines: http://www.lowlands-l.net/index.php?page=rules
Posting: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org or lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Commands ("signoff lowlands-l" etc.): listserv at listserv.net
Server Manual: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html
Archives: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html
Encoding: Unicode (UTF-8) [Please switch your view mode to it.]
=======================================================================
You have received this because you have been subscribed upon request.
To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
text from the same account to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or
sign off at http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================
A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
=======================================================================

From: Mike Morgan <Mike.Morgan at mb3.seikyou.ne.jp>
Subject: LL-L "Literature" 2005.05.16 (03) [E]


A while ago I think there was a strand about the songs children (girls,
actually, if I recall right) sing during play (jump-rope and the like; I've
since deleted the incriminating evidence, so can't be sure my memory
serves).

So anyway, I've had a question vaguely in my mind for years (literally --
since coming to Japan in Heisei 1), and so I'll finally come out and ask you
guys ... (I found a site (alas for some, in Japanese) which had some info,
though some of it less that really informative, at
:http://www.netlaputa.ne.jp/~tokyo3/janken.html, but my question still
remains ...)

Here in Japan (and I mean EVERYWHERE in Japan) everyone (and I mean
EVERYONE, including "seniors") plays a"game" called じゃんけん (janken), and
there is a song that goes along (slightly different versions found in
various locales, each thinking that theirs is IT). Having lived in both
rural Eastern Japan and urban Western Japan, and been exposed to
"standardized" versions when east and west, or urban and rural meet, it's
hard to keep them straight, but here is A version:

最初はグー
じゃんけんぽい
あいこでしょ

/saisho wa guu
janken poi
aiko desho/

translated (loosely and to the extent possible:
First there is "gu" (the fist)
  [[ whereupon everyone shows "rock"
"janken poi"
  [[whereupon everyone tries their best to win
a draw perhaps?
  [[when there is a tie

Now, though the Japanese think that it is a quintessentially Japanese game,
I played the same game when I was a kid, and we called it ... "Rock, paper,
scissors" (or for a short time in 5th or 6th grade, "Rock, paper dynamite"
... or the much tamer "... pencil). Only, we had no song.

After I grew up and went overseas, I saw basically the same game played all
over the place (though to date I will have to say that Japan is "unique" in
that this is the only place I know where people over the age of 12 play it
to make somewhat important decisions ... like which student in my 4th-year
university class has to (gets to?) go first with their presentation, etc).

And, after I married, I learned that in fact there IS another place where
they play the game AND have a song: Hawai'i. My wife, who spent her first 7
years on Maui remembers clearly playing "junk an' a po" (clearly from the
Japanese ... as are my wife's ancestors), and the song went:

"junken a Munken, a sucka sucka po,
Wailuku Wailuku bum bum show."  (or "big fat toe)
  [[ for those who aren't versed in Hawai'ian place names, Wailuku is a
major town on Maui ... and where my wife was born

When there's a stalemate, instead of Japanese "aikodesho", they say: "ai
kana show" (close to the Japanese but with perhaps an "injection" from Da
Kine (aka Hawai'ian Pidgin English) "A(i) caenna(')", probably NOT from
Scots "a canna" ... though Sandy may prove me wrong ... as he sometimes
does!)

But, though Hawai'i is TECHNICALLY the US, with some 30% of the population
being Japanese-Americans, maybe it deosn't count (I can say that as my wife
is NOT around!).

The only other place I've heard of a song being sung to go along with the
game is the Phillippines, where the song goes (from the site given above):

Jack and Poy
Haly Haly Hoy
Sino ang Matalo
Siya ang Unggoy

The title/first line seems suspisciously like the Japanese, so perhaps it IS
a borrowing? (The Japanese, if memory of High School American History
serves, where my teacher was a Bataan Death March survivor, did occupy the
place for some years.)

SO, my question is, does anyone know of anyplace where they play the game
AND sing a song while they play ... outside the Japanese sphere of
influence? And if you know the words I'd really be interested.

Mike Morgan
KUCFS
Kobe-Osaka, Japan

As a Sign Linguist and general cultural observer, one interesting thing here
is that the hearing version and the Deaf version of the game differ ... in
rhythm (i.e. 2 beats or 3 before you show. And as with many things, I get
along better with the Deaf version, as it matches the rhythm we Amercians
used when I was growing up.

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Games

Hey, Mike!

Where I grew up (Hamburg area, Germany) we did play that game, called it
_Tsching-tschang-tschong_ and were quite convinced that it was Chinese
(which could have meant anything East Asian).  I'm pretty sure the name is
"Patentchinesisch," but I sometimes wonder if it has some kind of genuine
roots.  Apparently it's known as _Schnick-Schnack-Schnuck_ in some parts of
Germany.  I don't remember a special rhyme that went along with it.  We'd
just say _Schere ... Stein ... Papier_ (scissors, stone/rock, paper).

In South Africa it's know as "Ching Chong Chow," in Korean 가위, 바위, 보  _Gawi
bawi bo_ ("Scissors, Rock (Wrap?)").

In the US (among some) "farggling," and in the southwestern US "roshambo."

The "bo" part of the latter and in the Korean version may well be related
with Japanese じゃんけんポン _janken pon_, and I wonder if it could come from
Chinese, in which case I would expect *_ben_ or *_pen_ in Mandarin.

Candidate Chinese words (characters):

'scissors': 剪 Mand. jiǎn (jian3), Cant. jin2, Sino-Jap. sen, Sino-Kor. cen
'cut with scissors'': 翦 Mand. jiǎn (jian3). Cant. jin2
'rock':  石 Mand. shí (shi2), Cant. sek6, Sino-Jap. seki, Sino-Kor. sek
'paper':  紙 (纸) Mand. zhǐ (zhi3), Cant. ji2, Sino-Jap. shi, Sino-Kor. si
'sheet': å¼µ (å¼ ) Mand. zhāng (zhang1), Cant. jeung1, Sino-Jap. tyou (chô),
Sino-Kor. cang
'sword': å  (剑) Mand. jià n (jian4), Cant. gim3, Sino-Jap. 剣  ken, Sino-Kor.
gem
'wrap': 包 Mand. bāo (bao1), Cant. baau1, Sino-Jap. pou~hou (pô~hô),
Sino-Kor. pho
'enfold': æ ± Mand. bao (bao4), Cant. pou5, bou6, Sino-Jap. pou~hou (pô~hô),
Sino-Kor. pho

Nah!?

Maybe one of our Chinese friends can tell us if they play this game.

Interesting!

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

==============================END===================================
Please submit postings to lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org.
Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l")
are  to be sent to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or at
http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================