LL-L "Etymology" 2005.05.31 (02) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 31.MAY.2005 (02) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: "Jacqueline Bungenberg de Jong" <Dutchmatters at comcast.net>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.05.30 (01) [E]

Tom Mc Ray asked whether Corby was of Scottish origin.
The French word for raven is le Corbeau it is also used for crow.
The English word crow is from a Germanic root. Probably mimicking the
sound crows make. Jacqueline

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From: "jonny" <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.05.30 (01) [E]

Hi, Tom,

could be of Latin origin: 'corvidae', all raven-birds, e.g.:'corvus corax'
E: 'raven', D: 'raaf', G: 'Kolkrabe', Swed.: 'korp'; 'corvus (corone)
corone': E: 'carrion crow', D: 'zwarte krai', LS: 'Krai', G: 'Rabenkrähe',
Swed.: 'swart kråka' etc...

Greutens/Regards
Johannes "Jonny" Meibohm

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From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.05.30 (01) [E]

Scots but not Germanic; it's related to Latin "Corvus", crow.

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From: heather rendall <HeatherRendall at compuserve.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.05.30 (01) [E]

The word is Scottish but it is derived from OF  Corbel  (Mod F Corbeau)
from which the English corbel (architect)  also comes. The OED quotes a
version from Chaucer corbet        from the Latin corvus

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From: Sandy Fleming <sandy at scotstext.org>
Subject: "Etymology" [E]

>
> From: Tom Mc Rae <t.mcrae at uq.net.au>
> Subject: Language
>
> Am I correct in regarding the word 'CORBY' or 'CORBIE', a crow, as
> being Lowland Scots in origin ?

I would imagine that this is a borrowing of the French "corbeau" into Scots.

Sandy
http://scotstext.org/

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From: "Global Moose Translations" <globalmoose at t-online.de>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.05.30 (01) [E]

Tom wrote:
> Am I correct in regarding the word 'CORBY' or 'CORBIE', a crow, as
> being Lowland Scots in origin ?

I'm a frayed knot, Tom. First of all, I think a corbie is a raven, not a
crow. And the name obviously comes from French corbeau, raven (as in "Le
corbeau et le renard", by Jean de la Fontaine), which, in turn, stems from
the raven's latin name, Corvus corax.

Speaking of animals - the peanut gallery recently broke down and was closed
for renovation, due to ist collapse following a tussle between two
bull-headed creatures (an ill-tempered moose and a territorial rooster, or
so I hear). Let us just say that it has now been fortified, and re-opened,
and that both animals are looking somewhat subdued and sheepish at present.

Gabriele Kahn

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From: "jonny" <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.05.30 (01) [E]

Leeve Lowlanners,

twei niege Wöör’ vandoog:

Toun Eierst:
LS: _sick vergoon_ (rev.), E: ‘to get around with someone’, G: ‘mit
jemandem klar kommen’, ‘sich mit jmd. verstehen’. Woneem koomt dat
(‚ver-’)'-goon’ woll aff? E: ‚to go’[along with someone], G: ‚gehen’? Mi
dücht meist, wat dat ouk van anner Oursprong ween kunn [halven Pennen],
wieldes dat 'ver-' dor ne sou recht hinpassen deit. G: '(sich) vergehen',
'Vergehen' heet anners wat, einmool E: '(to commit a) rape', un': 'a/the
crime'?!

Toun Tweid:
LS: '_mourbrennen_ Bruett'; E: (‘mooreburning’), ‘deadly heat’; G:
‘moerderische Hitze’.
'n scheun't Wourd, dücht mi.

Greutens/Regards

Johannes "Jonny" Meibohm

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

According to the _Dictionary of the Scots Language _ (which is the only
one I can check at the moment), the earliest known written occurrence of
the Scots word _corby_ ~ _corbie_ is in the 12th century, and it is
supposed to be derived from Old French _corb_ or _corbin_, which is, of
course, derived from Latin _corvus_.

The Modern Low Saxon words are _rave_ ['rQ:ve] ~ ['rQ:be] and _raav'_
[rQ:.v] ~ [rQ:f] ~ [ro:f], going back to Old Saxon _hravan_; cf. Old Low
Franconian _raven_ (> _raaf_), Old English _hræfn_ (> raven), Old German
_raban_ ~ _rabo_ (> _Rabe_), Old Norse _hrafn_ (~ _korpr_!), Gothic
_hrabns_, < Germanic *_hrabna_.

(1) I guess that Latin _corvus_ (stem /korv-/) is related to Germanic
*_hrabna_ (stem /hrab-n-a/, k- > h-, -b- > -v-), perhaps more likely IE
*_kor-euk-_ > *_korow-_ > *_korw-_ > Latin stem /korv-/ _corv-_; cf.
"crow", thus likely to be onomatopoetic by origin.  (This is my personal
guess, nothing I have found elsewhere so far.)  Cf. Indo-European
*_k(o)r-eug-_ 'to crow', *_k(o)r-euk-_ 'crow'.

(2) While perhaps less likely, Old Norse _korpr_ (masculine, stem /korp-/
or /korb-/), assumely a Latin loan, could have been the origin of Scots
_corby_ ~ _corbie_.  The early Scots alternative form _corbé_, however,
may suggest derivation from Old French _corbin_.

Incidentally, Yiddish has ראָב _rob_ for 'wren',
and for 'raven' it has װאָראָן
_voron_ (< Ukr./Rus. ворон _vóron_, probably
related to the Germanic and Romance words)!

Jonny (above):

> LS: _sick vergoon_ (rev.), E: ‘to get around with someone’,
> G: ‘mit jemandem klar kommen’, ‘sich mit jmd. verstehen’.
> Woneem koomt dat (‚ver-’)'-goon’ woll aff? E: ‚to go’[along
> with someone], G: ‚gehen’? Mi dücht meist, wat dat ouk van
> anner Oursprong ween kunn [halven Pennen], wieldes dat 'ver-'
> dor ne sou recht hinpassen deit. G: '(sich) vergehen',
> 'Vergehen' heet anners wat, einmool E: '(to commit a) rape',
> un': 'a/the crime'?!

I have never come across Low Saxon reflexive _sik vergaan_ as conveying
'to get along', 'to be on good terms', only in the sense of 'to commit a
moral error', 'to trespass', usually with _an_, and nowadays pretty much
only in the sense of 'to rape', thus much like German _sich (an ...)
vergehen_ (e.g., _Hey het sik an er vergaan_ 'He has raped her', with the
frequently used euphemism _an-vaten_ (<anfaten>) 'to touch', thus _Hey het
er an-vaten_ "He has touched her" = 'He raped her', used where the context
precludes ambiguity.

For 'to get along (together)' I use the idiomatic construction _tousamen
koenen_ (<tosamen könen> "to be able to together"), which may have lost a
word.  E.g., _Wy twey koent (goud) tousamen_ 'The two of us get along
(well)'.

Perhaps we are dealing with cases of dialectically restricted usage.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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