LL-L "Traditions" 2005.09.03 (01) [E]

Sat Sep 3 22:24:40 UTC 2005

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: ANNETTE GIESBRECHT <beautyaround at email.com>
Subject: LL-L "Tradition" 2005.08.31 (05) [E]

  From: Críostóir Ó Ciardha
  Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2005.08.31 (02) [D/E/LS]

  Dear all,

  On the subject of food, does anyone know why the eating of horses
  did not spread to Northern Europe? I am aware in Ireland and the
  Highlands of Scotland this may have come down to cultural taboos
  (now completely and utterly lost) based on the eating of horses
  being reserved for the "enthronement" of kings and chiefs, a
  practice which was a survival of Celtic mythology. But why did
  Germanic cultures not eagerly follow the avenue of eating horses?
  After all, it's better meat than pig or lamb, surely?

  Go raibh maith agat,

  Criostóir.
Maybe it was because horses were rather expensive and they needed them in 
battle.Annette R. Giesbrecht

Manitoba, Canada

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From: heather rendall <HeatherRendall at compuserve.com>
Subject: LL-L "Traditions" 2005.09.02 (03) [E]

Message text written by INTERNET:lowlands-l at LOWLANDS-L.NET
>In the case of houses on the (Lunenburg) Heath, there is the addition of a
hole underneath the cross, a remnant of the old smoke escape, the old "wind
eye" (= "window").<

Is this also the name given to the open window in the Boden that most large
old houses have - so that the draught can dry clothes hung up to dry up
there?

I love the word window and think your _ulen-vlucht_ just as 'romantic' in
the true sense of the word!
I am only surprised it is not called Spatzenflucht - ref the Venerable
Bede's story that Life is like the passage of a sparrow that flies into a
Hall through the open window, flies round the rafters and then exits
through the opposite window.

Heather

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From: jonny <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
Subject: LL-L "Traditions" 2005.09.02 (03) [E]

Dear Heather, Ron,

Heather wrote:

> >I can't find any pictures of Kentish gable horses and don't remember
> >their
> >look.
>
> They are mostly made of earthenware/ tile and only used to end either end
> of the roof or a gable with.
> Next time I'm in town, I'll take my camera with me and see if I can snap a
> few!

Please let me deal with your pictures. I'm very interested in these Saxonian
traditions, too.
I'll have a look around in my home country to find any similar things
regarding 'Hengist and Horsa', and you'll get my pictures as a reward for
yours.

BTW: not far from here, going up the river Elbe just a couple of miles,
there's near Hamburg the region called 'Altes Land'.
It's an old Dutch settlement as I mentioned several times before, and there
they haven't got 'gable-horses', but 'gable-swans' to decorate their
wonderful old houses.
I never have seen anything like that in any Frisian region- I guess it to be
an answer to the traditions of their Saxonian neighbours.

And Ron:

>  It's all quite fascinating to me, as
> I'm particularly interested in possibly Old Saxon folklore, material
> culture
> and the like (besides linguistic material) that link Saxon England with
> the
> Continental Saxon areas.  (This includes, by the way, possible links
> between
And so am I, Reinhard! Let me take part in that, if it's off-topic for LL-L.
Just tonight I had a good talk with an older neighbour, and we talked about
really old, Saxon-based names for the villages we are sorrounded by. The
first one I think to be very old by its name is 'Hollen', because there a
lots of villages named this way or at last have 'hollen' as a part of the
whole name.
LS 'Hollen' or 'Hullen' (the second version we still use in my home village)
we use to describe a very flat 'hill', also any island in our 'Watt' (E
respectless: 'mud plates'), and for any grass sticking out of the
sorrounding surface level ('Grashullen'; 'Reethullen').

> In the case of houses on the (Lunenburg) Heath, there is the addition of a
> hole underneath the cross, a remnant of the old smoke escape, the old
> "wind
> eye" (= "window").  It's Low Saxon name is _ulen-vlucht_ (<Ulenflucht>
> "owl's flight").  I suppose this requires no explanation, except that the
> same word also means "dusk," "evening twilight."  (Kind of "romantic,"
> isn't
> it?)
Ronni- I didn't find anyone to affirm this expression in the meaning you are
using it. '_ulen-vlucht_' just means the flight of the owls at dusk-times.
Those wholes you mentioned you will find in all regions of the Saxonian
influenced North-German areas, and they always are named '_Ulenlökker_', G:
'Eulenlöcher', E: 'owl-holes'.
In 1982 I built a big new shed for grain stocking, and after the walls and
gables had been covered with sheeds of alumine my first step was to cut out
those round 'Ulenlökker'.
Just 3 weeks later the first owl got our shed as her district, and since
then every year they made their brooding (ha- I did a look in my dictionary
and found a surprising new variety of 'breed' I hadn't seen before) there.

Greutens/Regards

Johannes "Jonny" Meibohm

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Traditions

Jonny (above):

> Ronni- I didn't find anyone to affirm this expression in the meaning you 
> are
> using it. '_ulen-vlucht_' just means the flight of the owls at dusk-times.

True, in most dialects, but in some of them they apparently mean both.  I 
have this in my notes, but the material I got it from is down in California. 
I know _ulen-lok_ (<Ulenlock>) as well, and I believe it's prevalent around 
the Lower Elbe region.

> BTW: not far from here, going up the river Elbe just a couple of miles,
> there's near Hamburg the region called 'Altes Land'.

This is Tant Clara's (Clara Kramer-Freudenthal's) native place.  Here some 
pictures:

http://www.netsamurai.de/netplanet-harburg/stadtteil-photo-altes-land.htm
http://www.kiekin-hotels.de/de/regionen.asp?int_bereich=2&c_aland=true
http://www.koestlichesdeutschland.de/pictures/01/big/01-0069_b.jpg
http://www.stero.de/hamburg_bilder/altesland/altesland05.jpg
A local bridge -- familiar to our Netherlanders?:
http://www.stero.de/hamburg_bilder/altesland/altesland08.jpg

But there are also crossed horseheads in that area, though most of them have 
the heads facing each other:
http://www.altlaender-fleisch.de/main/images/haus.gif
The traditional costume:
http://www.sassisch.net/rhahn/kramer/dracht.htm

Heather (above):

> Is this also the name given to the open window in the Boden that most 
> large
> old houses have - so that the draught can dry clothes hung up to dry up
> there?

Hmmm ... I'm not totally sure, but I doubt it.  (Do you know, Jonny, or 
someone else?)  It has to be a hole without any grating or similar 
protection, I believe.  Besides, the Heath has its own flora, fauna, 
folklore and fantasies.  Intersperse with woods, the sandy heathland, all 
mauve during heather bloom, dotted with pointed junipers and yews, is a 
unique environment, and the Low Saxon (Low German) mythology and literature 
of the "Heidjers" stands apart as well. Shepherding and beekeeping are 
traditional industries.  Owls at least used to be commonplace, and their 
relationship with people is featured prominently, such as being equivalents 
of Celtic banshees.  If you can possible arrange it, I recommend visiting 
the Lunenburg Heath and taking a night stroll on an uninhabited stretch of 
land in one of the nature preserves (e.g., around Snevern/Schneverdingen). 
It's kind of eerie and beautiful, especially on a moonlit night.

Here are a few photographs of the landscape and Heidjers' traditional 
houses:
http://www.ndrtv.de/bilderbuch/19980920/
http://www.visselhoevede.de/fvv/bilder/naturschutzpark.jpg
http://www.ferienhaus-rosenbrock.de/umgebung/eiben_heide.jpg
http://www.heideurlaub.de/lueneburger_heide_info/die_lueneburger_heide/lueneburger_heide2.jpg
http://www.cornelias-fotogalerie.de/bilder/heidehaus5.jpg
http://www.cornelias-fotogalerie.de/bilder/heidehaus3.jpg
http://www.gemeinde-neuenkirchen.de/img/tanz.jpg

>  am only surprised it is not called Spatzenflucht -

:-)  That would be *_lünken-vlucht_ (<Lünkenflucht>) or *_lünken-lok_ 
(<Lünkenlock>) in Low Saxon, by the way.

Oh, and for the extra "Delectables" twist (which I know has a few fans on 
the List, you included, Heather), there is the sweet (but not too sweet) 
delicay of the Heath: heathland buckwheat cake (LS _Bookwetenkoken_, G 
_Buchweizenkuchen_) ...

Kumpelmenten,
Reinhard/Ron

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