LL-L "Lexicon" 2005.09.10 (02) [D/E]

Sat Sep 10 20:39:32 UTC 2005

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Roger Hondshoven <roger.hondshoven at pandora.be>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2005.09.08 (08) [E/LS/German]

Hallo Jo,

  Thanks for your comments. I must agree that the tautological 'helegans'
(but not 'gans') is a currently used word in the two dialects I know.
'Godgans' is also heard.  Nevertheless I am under the impression that
'helemaal' is used far more often tyan 'helegans'. On the other hand I stick
by my opinion that in general Belgian Dutch (and certainly in the one that I
speak) 'heel' is the normal word. 'Gans' sounds quaint to me, as something
of the past.

  Beste groeten,

  Roger

  > From: Jo Thys <jo.thijs1 at telenet.be>
  > Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2005.09.08 (02) [E/German]
  >
  > Hoi Roger, all,
  >
  > > From: Roger Hondshoven <roger.hondshoven at pandora.be>
  > >  In my experience, in Dutch and in Flemish dialects 'gans' is a
'paper'
  > > word, seldom used in spoken, natural speech. The normal word, to me,
is
  > > 'heel'.
  >
  > I believe in (south?) Limburg 'gans' is preferred above 'heel', like in
'de
  > ganse doag',' de godganse doag' and somethimes both like in 'helegans'
as an
  > adverb.
  >
  > Vriendelijke groeten,
  >
  > Jo Thys

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From: Heiko Evermann <heiko.evermann at gmx.de>
Subject: Nochmal de Mathematik

Moin Ron,

>By the way, I like _Räkenkunn_ (Rekenkunn, Rekenkund) for 'mathematics' and
'arithmetic', as in Dutch (_rekenkunde_).

Well, in Dutch "rekenkunde" is artithmetic. Whereas "wiskunde" is
"mathematics". (BTW: I do not understand the word "wiskunde". What is 
"wis"?)

Mathematics goes way beyond calculating. (e.g. set theory, analysis etc.)
Therefore I think "Rekenkunn" can only serve as Low Saxon for "arithmetics".
Which still means that we would have to borrow "Mathematik" or find some
other word. But I have noted "rekenkunn" as translation for arithmetics.

I still need more words. Did anyone expect any different... :)

I need a word for en:set, de:Menge.

I have found Sass:
"Satz (zusammenhängende Wörter) Satz
(sonstige zusammengehörige Teile) Sett

But Neuber has "Satz, z.B. Satz Schüsseln, Gewichtssatz, Schriftsatz => Satt

So what is "Menge": Satt, Sett or some translation of "Menge"?

And I need a translation of de:Vielfaches, en:multiple as in  "In 
mathematics,
any integer (whole number) is either even or odd. If it is a multiple of 
two,
it is an even number; otherwise, it is an odd number."

After that I can translate a good portion of "even and odd numbers" which
would be the first article in nds.wikipedia.org about Mathematics.

Thanks in advance for lots of proposals.

Kind regards,

Heiko Evermann

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Lexicon

Hi, Heiko!

> Which still means that we would have to borrow "Mathematik" or find some
> other word. But I have noted "rekenkunn" as translation for arithmetics.

Sounds fair enough.

> Whereas "wiskunde" is
> "mathematics". (BTW: I do not understand the word "wiskunde". What is 
> "wis"?)

_Wiskunde_ (which would be *_wisskun(d)_ *<Wisskund> ~ *<Wisskunn> if 
calqued into North Saxon) sounds truly archaic to me.  Apparently, the first 
part comes from Old Low Franconian _wis_ 'know(ledge)', 'certain' (not _wîs_ 
'wise', 'knowledgeable', which would have made it *_wijskunde_ in Modern 
Dutch).

> I need a word for en:set, de:Menge.
>
> I have found Sass:
> "Satz (zusammenhängende Wörter) Satz
> (sonstige zusammengehörige Teile) Sett
>
> But Neuber has "Satz, z.B. Satz Schüsseln, Gewichtssatz, Schriftsatz => 
> Satt

This vexing thing has been bothering me for a long time.  North Saxon 
dialects of German, at least, use the German loanword _Satz_ (pl. _Sätz_) at 
least in the sense of 'sentence'.  In moments of temptation to commit the 
crime of "engineering" (Ach, du liebe Güte!) I like to look accross the 
border to our Saxon relatives of the Netherlandic persuation.  Even if they 
borrow from Dutch, which they are wont to do, it's genealogically closer. 
In the grammatical sense, Dutch uses _zin_, and I believe so do the Low 
Saxon dialects of the Netherlands.  This would be _sin_ (<Sinn>) in North 
Saxon of Germany, which already has the meaning 'sense', 'mind', 'meaning'. 
I would find it confusing if it were used for 'sentence' as well.  I would 
prefer to use the same word as that for 'set' (i.e., "set of words and 
phrases"), as in German.

I would not use _sat_ (<Satt>), since its modern meaning is very restricted 
in most dialects, as far as I know ('shallow clay bow' in most dialects). 
_Set_ (<Sett>) seems a bit wider, meaning also 'while' in the northwest, 
thus a "span of time" or "set of moments."  But if Neuber has _sat_ (<Satt>) 
in the sense of "set" ...?  Hmmm ... anyone's guess is as good as mine.

> And I need a translation of de:Vielfaches, en:multiple as in  "In 
> mathematics,
> any integer (whole number) is either even or odd. If it is a multiple of 
> two,
> it is an even number; otherwise, it is an odd number."

*_De veelvold_ (<de Veelfold>) (cf. Dutch _het veelvoud_)?

By the way, I would suggest to translate "otherwise" as _anners_.

Hold Dy vuchtig!
Reinhard/Ron
(self-appointed partner in crime)

----------

From: RVZSTERN at aol.com <RVZSTERN at aol.com>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2005.09.09 (08) [D/E]

Hoewel de betekenis van opbeuren optillen,opheffen,oplichten is, wordt het 
op die manier weinig meer gebruikt in het dagelijkse Nederlandse 
spraakgebruik. Het wordt echter wel vaak meer figuurlijk gebruikt in de 
betekenis van " moed en vertrouwen inspreken" ; "Ik zal hem eens een 
bezoekje afleggen nu dat zijn vrouw is gestorven en ik hoop dat ik hem wat 
op kan beuren" of "Ja, zo'n lekker stuk Groninger koek, dat beurt me elke 
keer dat ik heimwee heb naar Nederland weer op." ( echt waar........)

In't Drenths ( omgeving Roden in het Noordenveld), zegg'n wij ok "Ik kan't 
mie niet beuren", wat betekent " Ik kan het me niet veroorloven", maar ik 
weet niet waar dat woord vandaan komt.

My two cents, pennies or whatever................

Vriendelijke groeten,

Roeliena Van Zanten
Bainbridge Island.

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