LL-L "Language survival" 2005.09.15 (13) [E]
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Fri Sep 16 01:10:05 UTC 2005
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L O W L A N D S - L * 15.SEP.2005 (13) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: heather rendall <HeatherRendall at compuserve.com>
Subject: LL-L "In the news" 2005.09.15 (06) [E/S]
>"Europe's Lost Tribes"?<
I haven't been able to pick up the article; they are saying the page isn't
available or it's been removed.
Did anyone save it per chance?
Heather
PS I would read "Europe's Lost Tribes" as a Headline i.e.
re-using/adapting a well known phrase or saying to make a quick and punchy
point. Rather than have a literal meaning.
"Lost Tribes" is of course a biblical reference and has a meaning of
peoples who were once close relatives and now have dispersed or gone out of
sight / no longer in touch.
So you could re-write the title as " Europe's ( lost tribes) " with a
meaning of the dispersed peoples of Europe or the people we have lost
touch with - who we don;t hear about any more.
Is that so bad?
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From: Brooks, Mark <mark.brooks at twc.state.tx.us>
Subject: LL-L "In the news" 2005.09.15 (06) [E/S]
Isaac wrote: 'I haven't even started the body of the article and already
I've got a problem with it. "Europe's Lost Tribes"?'
I read the title and rightly or wrongly thought it was an oblique reference
to the Lost Tribes of Israel. Funny how the reader fills in so much meaning
that may not actually be intended.
Mark Brooks
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From: jonny <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
Subject: LL-L "Language survival"
Dear Lowlanders,
looking at my own mails of some 'agone' days in the past I'm surprised
myself how emotionally they had been.
The same a good two weeks ago we heard from our Didi being afraid to loose
his typical Brabantish dialect, and I remember some other list-members
engaged in a similar way.
Or our Gabriele with her beloved LS-Eastphalian home dialect.
Why does it happen? Are we just afraid to loose any minority language or is
it more a kind of chauvinism? Any dark feeling we could loose our identity?
Well- in the case of Cornish, Irish or Belgian Flemish it obviously could be
a reaction against being suppressed, because folks over there really are
ethnical minorities and had to fight for their own rights for centuries.
But- in my case? I don't feel suppressed by anyone except by some books and
written stuff far offside from my own dialect.
Where to find the reasons for these irrational reactions, obviously spread
all over the world? 'My language- that's me'? Having become a tremendous
part of the own psyche, in special of the irrational ones?
This I'm sure could be just one aspect, because I'ld never (??) react this
way if Standard German would be concerned, though it is my mother language
even more than LS.
Of course- Standard German is a mighty, vital language not endangered at the
moment and, even if it were, there would be a sympathical, related
alternative language called 'European English'.
I'm not defending just my own little regional dialect, as could be assumed,
I'm defending that what I think are as well the foundations of International
Low Saxon. A result of any Pan-Saxism? How should it; the greater part of me
I guess not to be of Saxon blood.
Just any intention to defend the poor and the weak, like an own child?
As a result of the fact that, if living in the sphere of a certain language
(group) you feel part of the fellow people and have to defend their
peculiarities against outsiders?
Questions and questions and not one universally satisfying answer.
But- there obviously are people being free of feelings like these. Yes, they
must be different with different minds, different experiences and different
intentions. Might they have lost their linguistical roots, or never have
had? Too much globalized, cocooned in modern egalitarianism? Perhaps they
are just a little less emotionally? (Have a look on Ron, for example- a man,
absolutely cool and rationally inside, never minding our, me and his, common
Siberian ancestors :-)!)
Or- just a kind of severe paranoia in my mind? I think this to be of
greatest propability, and I should go to an analyst for the first time in my
life. But- perhaps there is anyone on the list being experienced in attacks
of these kind, able to help with therapeutical advises ;-)?
Kind regards
Johannes "Jonny" Meibohm
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From: Larry Granberg <nibwit at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "In the news" 2005.09.15 (06) [E/S]
Hey all,
Issac, this was in the European edition of Time, When I was on the phone
with relatives in the States when I was talking about the article I was told
it was not in their edition. But as Ron says the pernicious reach of Murdoch
is felt everywhere. But in a very real sense much of the people described do
feel lost in that they have lost touch with their unique heritage. Starosta
(Mayor) Lubica Dzuganova of Tychy Potok, the youngest and first woman mayor
in Slovakia and Rusyn activist once said that "We (Rusyns) are all lost in a
Europe that didn't care if our culture and language lived or died out, we
are lost in a Europe that doesn't even know us". Issac, several Rusyn
leaders are overjoyed that Time did indeed tell them that they were lost.
Ron, a lot of what you say I agree with. As you say, it did play on recent
events to tie in a lead for this article. However>>>always a however>>>I
looked upon the article as a starting point to where you could respond to in
the opinions column and show up the errors or the rather outdated thinking.
How many times in major (news) print have you seen anything concerning
either Rusyns or Sorbs or Frisian? Granted, it was more like The Idiot's
Guide to Culture 101 and the author could certainly have used better labels,
but then again the article was never meant for an audience made up of
knowledgeable linguists, historians, etc. I would rather save the outrage
and indignation if Time would continue to use those loaded terms.
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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language survival
Well spoken, Laurentius, meus amicus! Thanks for the however.
> "We (Rusyns) are all lost in a Europe that didn't care if our culture and
> language lived or died out, we are lost in a Europe that doesn't even
> know us"
This seems to point at a very important part. Why was it that I, who was
very inquisitive about these matters already as a child, found out about
Rusyns and their language and culture as an adult? Why is that most people
I communicate with all over the world have never heard about my ancestral
people and brush aside such detail, clinging to "Germany," the only label
that makes sense to them? Why is it that so many people think Frisians and
Holsteiners are cows? There is a sense of outrage about it, I guess,
besides our typically human reluctance to let go, and to let go unknown for
all that.
Jonny:
> (Have a look on Ron, for example- a man,
> absolutely cool and rationally inside, never minding our, me and his,
> common
> Siberian ancestors :-)!)
Oh, Jonny, if anything, I'm just *trying*. But I cannot avoid being more
often more emotional about such things than I would like to be. I just try
not to get consumed by negative emotions, rather let a philosophy guide me
that makes me acknowledge and accept that nothing we seem to perceive with
our physical senses ever remains as it is. Yet, it is not easy to avoid the
clinging and wanting "just a little while longer."
Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
***
惜牧丹花
惆悵階前紅牧丹
晚來唯有兩枝殘
明朝風起應吹盡
夜惜衰紅把火看
BUERROSENTRUER
Ik truer üm de roden Buerrosen bi de Stopen.
Vunavend weern dat man bloots noch twee.
Weiht de Morgenwind, is 't ook mit de ut un all.
Bi Lateernenlicht wunnerwark ik vunnacht œver't letzte Rood.
PFINGSTROSENTRAUER
Ich trauere um die roten Pfingstrosen bei den Stufen.
Heute Abend waren es nur noch zwei.
Weht der Morgenwind, ist es auch mit ihnen vorbei.
Bei Laternenlicht bewundere ich heute Nacht das letzte Rot.
PEONY LAMENT
I'm grieving about the red peonies by the steps.
There were only two of them left tonight.
Come the morning breeze, they, too, will be gone.
By a lantern's light will I admire the last red in the night.
白居易 Bai Juyi (Po Chü-i, 772–846 CE)
Translations ©2005, R. F. Hahn
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