LL-L "Ethnicity" 2005.09.26 (05) [E]

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From: Larry Granberg <nibwit at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "Ethnicity" 2005.09.24 (09) [E]


Hej Rado i Mjiko,

I thought that I would like to add a few things to Ron's (hey Rado is the 
closest I could come to with your happy, singing name Ron) pretty good 
overview.

Firstly, Rusyn/Rusin should be  pronounced  with the y/i (depending on what 
transliteration system you use) sounding more like the y in myth. In 
dialect, the more south you go (known as the Pod-Karpatska dialects) the y 
sounds as the ea in earth- sorry I can not write out the diacritical marks 
here on my pc.

Carpatho-Rusyn culture is classified as being a border culture, with heavy 
influences from both the Hunagarians and Vlachs. Not that the influence was 
one sided, most of the domestic terms were Magyarized borrowings from both 
the Rusyn and Slovak peoples that were ruled by the Hungarians.

Ron wrote "Greek Catholics are Roman Catholics but instead of following
the
Latin tradition they celebrate an Eastern Slavonic (English, now)
Liturgy in
an Eastern-Church environment (more like Greek, rather than
Russian)".

Bozhij Moj Rado!

Good call on the observation of the differences between Russian and Greek 
there bojchik!  The Greek Catholic Church is more in some instances 
representative of Orthodoxy before the changes enforced by Peter the Great 
and the succeeding Tsars took hold over the Russian O.C.

Greek Catholics are part of the Catholic Church, but they are not Roman 
Catholic. Just like other Churches that are in unia with Rome, they follow 
their own liturgical rules, codes, and traditions. They have married clergy 
although the bishops and archbishops used to follow Orthodox tradition in 
that they were usually drawn from the monastic order-so were required to be 
celibate, and still are. Although some of the differences that used to 
distinguish Greek Catholics from their Latin brethren such as the Filioque, 
Communion practices,Papal infability have been changed in the late 1800's 
and the earlier part of this century, the Greek Catholic Churches do not 
teach Limbo, Stations of the Cross, nor the Annunciation using the Orthodox 
term Domitian of the Virgin. Additionally, the idea of sin is different in 
that there is not an emphasis on the venial or mortal types but that sin is 
a choice to turn from God. Christ is viewed as the Healer of us all, and is 
emphasized in His Resurrection not in His death, you simply do not see 
Christ on the cross in the typical Greek Catholic church.  While I do not 
remember any teaching of the Immaculate Conception when I was a kid staying 
with relatives (half of my family is GC the other including myself are 
Orthodox), I am told that it is a church by church, priest by priest thing 
if a parish is being taught that. There is also a movement to bring back the 
communion of infants that was part of the traditional religious life of the 
Rusyns while still in the "Old Country" so no more first communion which is 
a distinct Latinism. I guess that this was a rather long winded way of 
saying that it would be proper to call the G.C.C. a mixture of Latin and 
Orthodox religious teaching. Oops, almost forgot, they still use the Church 
Slavonic, again on a church by church basis. There are those in the G.C.C. 
who want to drop references to either an ethnic background or ! the use of 
Old Church Slavonic maintaining that those are outdated concepts and have no 
place in a church of today that should reach out to all Americans, and 
Canadians. I should say that this is the position of some priests and not 
of the lay membership of the church.

One final word is to be very cautious  of some of the info and music sites 
that Ron provided. Some of the music is from the central and eastern parts 
of Ukraine, just rewritten in Lemko orthography. The best site to use would 
be the carpatho-rusyn.org.

Differences between Rusyn and Ukrainian positions are intense and not easily 
condensed to fit here in just a few lines. Rather than take up space on a 
very off topic for this list,  those interested can write me directly.

Blahudariju,

Larry aka Lavko

From: Ben J. Bloomgren
Subject: LL-L "Language politics" 2005.09.24 (01) [E]

"even the Encyclopedia Brittannica doesn´t know the
Rusyns."

My mother's side of the family is from southeastern Nebraska, USA. I have
never seen this spelled, but he always referred to some people in Lincoln
and environs as "The [Rooshans." Are these Rusyns those people, and how
would one spell that word?
Ben

Hey, Ben!

Apparently you're right there, and so is your spelling.

Pennsylvania Coal Region dialect:

"Da Rooshans:
The Russians, as in the wry, rueful statement: "Da Rooshans'll never bomb us
out; Looks like we awreddy been gone over." --- Because of the landscape we
saw whenever we looked around. This was some slight consolation in the early
Cold War days."

"The Rusyns:
Not the Russians --- but pronounced Rooshans. Immigrants from (take your
pick), no! rthwest Ukraine, south Poland, east Slovakia; Whom we usually
called Greek Catholic, because they considered themselves Byzantine
Catholic. Greek Catholics are Roman Catholics but instead of following the
Latin tradition they celebrate an Eastern Slavonic (English, now) Liturgy in
an Eastern-Church environment (more like Greek, rather than Russian).Their
churches display the Byzantine Cross, of three crossbars with the lowest
slanted, and the typical onion domes of Eastern Europe and Russia."

http://users.erols.com/sfpayer/CoalR/commcoalr.htm

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Ethnicity

Hej, Lavko i mjiko!

> Ron wrote "Greek Catholics are Roman Catholics but instead of following
> the
> Latin tradition they celebrate an Eastern Slavonic (English, now)
> Liturgy in
> an Eastern-Church environment (more like Greek, rather than
> Russian)".

To borrow a Low Saxon phrase in order to put it as delicately as possible, 
"it ain't grown in *my* dung."  I had quoted a web source.  So I will take 
neither credit nor blame.  But thanks for the very interesting 
clarifications, bojčik.

And talking about _bojčik_, I should have mentioned that Rusyns also live in 
parts of Hungary (mostly near the border with Slovakia), in Yugoslavia's 
Vojvodina region, and in North America particularly in Pittsburgh. The other 
day I chanced upon an impressive Orthodox Christian bookstore (with a large 
selection of books, records and icons) in Santa Rosa, Sonoma County, 
California, associated with a local Greek Orthodox church.  Most of the 
books were in Greek and in English, and, obviously for ecomenical reasons, 
there was a good collection of Russian and Ukrainian books, as well as a 
small selection of Rusyn books.  I asked the shopkeeper if any Rusyns live 
in the area, and he said that there were "a number."

> (hey Rado is the closest I could come to with your happy, singing name 
> Ron)

Not a bad choice. It conjurs up "joy" and "fun," doesn't it?  In a series of 
intensive Russian immersion courses I once took (ах, ужас!) I was given the 
class name Родион _Rodion_ [r at d'i"on] with the endearment form Родя _Rodja_ 
["rod'ja].  It's a bit old-fashioned, apparently derived from Greek 
‘Ηρωδηών Herodión, the endearing form of ‘Ηρωδής _Herodés_, probably 
meaning "hero's song."  (It reminds us of King Herod, one of the less 
likable biblical figures, but at least it contains the idea of "song," as 
does Hebrew רׄן _ron_.)

And blahudariju to you!
Reinhard/Ron

P.S.: Rusyn Americans famous outside their communities (apart from our 
Larry, of course): Sandra Dee (Alexandra Zuck), Tom Ridge (Cherokee father 
and Rusyn mother), Robert Urich (Juric), and Andy Warhol (Warhola).

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