LL-L 'Delectables' 2006.07.16 (03) [E/LS]

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
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L O W L A N D S - L * 16 July 2006 * Volume 03
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From: 'Global Moose Translations' <globalmoose at t-online.de>
Subject: LL-L 'Delectables' 2006.07.16 (02) [E/LS]

Ron:
>Or did in earlier times the notorious North German tradition of
_Krüschheit_
>(pickiness that rejects anything that has flavor and aroma, or anything
that is
>new) play a role in this as well? (_Igitt-igitt! Kees'? Nä, den kannst ja
rüken!
>Äch! Nä! Daar bliev' mi vun af mit! Den äät ik nich, un de kümmt mi
ook nich in
>'t Huus._)

But they did eat herring and other strong-flavoured seafood instead! And
sausages that were not for the faint of heart.

So, on one side of the border, they had an elaborate cheese culture, with
every town and region producing its own distinct flavours, and across the
border - which wasn't even always in place - nothing. Nothing at all.

Maybe the Germans were too clean and fastidious, so their milk never went
bad in the first place? Or maybe no one ever told them about rennet?

Gabriele Kahn

----------

From: Sandy Fleming <sandy at scotstext.org>
Subject:  LL-L 'Delectables' 2006.07.16 (02) [E/LS]

>From: 'Global Moose Translations' <globalmoose at t-online.de
>Subject: LL-L 'Delectables' 2006.07.15 (03) [E]
>
>But as far as I know, Muenster cheese is not from the city of Muenster in
>Germany; it's from Alsace.
>
>And those few far-fetched examples (even Tilsit and Limburger are not from
>Schleswig-Holstein or Lower Saxony!) certainly do not answer my question,
>
>From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
>Subject: Delectables
>
>Or did in earlier times the notorious North German tradition of _Krüschheit_
>(pickiness that rejects anything that has flavor and aroma, or anything that is
>new) play a role in this as well? (_Igitt-igitt! Kees'? Nä, den kannst ja rüken!
>Äch! Nä! Daar bliev' mi vun af mit! Den äät ik nich, un de kümmt mi ook nich in
>'t Huus._)
>
It all sounds a bit like the Scottish cheese industry. There used to be
many different kinds of cheese from Scotland, one from my area being
Liberton cheese (Liberton now a suburb in the southernmost reaches of
Edinburgh).

I think there came a time in Scotland when people became less particular
about food. They didn't care what the cheese was, cheese was just
cheese, and eventually it became almost a synonym for the ubiquitous
cheddar. Perhaps the smaller cheese factories just died out through lack
of public interest.

This doesn't seem to have happened in the south of England, where in
general they seem to be better at sustaining local food and drink
producing ventures. Thing get a bit ironic when you consider that
Cheddar is a town in Somerset (England) and the shops are full of
Scottish, English, Irish and Welsh cheddar.

England still seems to have a proper cheese-making tradition with
Stilton, Red Leicester, Double Gloucester, Wensleydale, Somerset Brie
and so on. There is still a strong tradition of "real" or
traditionally-made cheeses in England, but I don't think I've ever
tasted any!

Sandy Fleming
http://scotstext.org/

----------

From: Luc Hellinckx <luc.hellinckx at telenet.be>
Subject: LL-L 'Delectables'

Beste Ron en Gabriele,

Just a few thoughts regarding the quasi absence of cheese in Niedersachsen. Even
here in (small) Belgium, a difference can be noticed between Flanders and Brabant
in my opinion. It seems like cheese is (traditionally!) not really a staple food
in Brabant either, whereas Flemish cuisine makes plenty use of it. The opposite
can be said of meat.

Why? Let me just make a few guesses.

It may have something to do with money. If meat was more expensive than cheese
(price/calorie ratio), maybe cheese afficionado's were a tad more stingy?

Industrial development in the early nineteenth century may have played a role
too. Could it be that in those regions where manufactories set off, the eating
habits of people changed somehow? I don't know how much physical labour an
average industrial worker had to exert in those days, but I tend to think that
agricultural farmers were relatively better off in that respect. Surely farmers
had to work hard too, but their job was more in tune with nature and unevenly
spread throughout the year. In short, did the industrial age make meat (more)
fashionable (replacing cheese)? If that's the case, northern Germany may have
been swamped by culinary habits originating in the south (read Ruhrgebiet). Does
this period coincide with the slow demise of dialect in Northern Germany Ron? If
so, it could mean that on the whole, this was just a very transitional period for
Northern German society. Ever noticed how fast our diet is changing now at the
start of the 21st century? *s*

Or would there be a connection with the consumption of beverages? Does beer match
sausages better than cheese, according to Saxon palates? Does beer have a
culturally more dominating position in Northern Germany than in Holland for
example? Does the availability of fresh seafood rule out the need for sausages? *s*

Again, this is all just a hunch.

Cheers,

Luc Helinckx 

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Delectables

Gabriele:

> But they did eat herring and other strong-flavoured seafood instead!
>  And sausages that were not for the faint of heart.

True, but everything was of a very limited range of flavors that result from
basically three preservation methods:

(1) salted (mostly soaked in brine)
(2) cold-smoked (after salting)
(3) vinegar-cured

Anything outside that was considered exotic even in my childhood.  Anything even
remotely with a kick (e.g., even milder peppers/capsicum) or with a strong smell
(foremost garlic) was either avoided or considered marginal.

Also, "seafood" was really only fish, later with the later addition of tiny
shrimp.  Even very few communities by the sea ate mussels, crabs and the like. 
Of course, mussels are now fairly widely eaten, mostly due to mediterranean
immigrants' influences, as is garlic.  Things have changed, but we are talking
about the olden days.

Interestingly, the "fine" people in larger cities such as Hamburg clearly ate
more "exotic" things and had a much greater variety of cooking methods.  I've
gathered that from old cook books and also from tales of former maids.  It was
they that ate the lobsters caught around Heligoland then.  In old cookbooks "for
the finer kitchen" I've found a lot of recipes that were originally French and
English.

Anyway, this taste thing of mine was really mostly tomfoolery, as you probably
realized.  I don't *really* think that it prevented cheese-making.

Sandy, I have a feeling you're on to something there.  It could be true that
there *was* cheese-making in Northern Germany as there was in Scotland.  Perhaps
it was, like butter-making in the very early days, a home thing rather than
commercial.  Traditionally, people milked their own cows, churned their own
butter and perhaps made their own cheese.  Commercialization came in later and as
cottage industry may not have reached beyond people's own communities.  Come the
"Hollanders" and also "Flemings" (throughout Northern Germany and all the way
along the Baltic Coast to what is now Kaliningrad, Russia), and there were Swiss
and Scottish colonies in the northeast.  Many, if not most, settlers from today's
Netherlands were dairy farmers and arrived with superior skills in land
reclamation, cattle breeding and raising, dairy processing and retailing.  They
easily outdid the locals, and this may have killed off whatever small local
cheese-selling ventures there had been.  In fact, by the 19th century a common
Low Saxon name for "dairy farm" was _Hollanneree_ (_hollanderey_, *"hollandery").
 We ought not underestimate Danish power either.  Danish cheese and butter have
been imported to Northern Germany for a long time, though I believe that many
Danish dairy farms were founded by people from the Netherlands as well.

Can you think of notable cheese imports from Poland, the Czech Republic and other
Slavonic-speaking areas?  I do know that traditionally fresh cheeses, notably
quark (_tvarok_ etc.), has been a favorite in those regions, besides buttermilk
and clodded milk, and these were not easily stored and transported by traditional
means. Remember that Germany's eastern half used to be predominantly Slavonic,
all the way west to Hamburg, Lunenburg and Hanover.  When I go through
traditional Sorbian cook books I find no mention of aged cheese but plenty of
mention of quark and buttermilk used with millet.  I find the cuisines of
Northern Germany and Northern Poland to be rather similar, or to be on a
continuum, for instance with regard to sausages, preserved fish, baked goods and
fruit preserves.  Perhaps this is another piece of the puzzle.

Luc, those are interesting thoughts.  I'm sure that the Industrial Revolution had
all sorts of impact, perhaps also in this regard, possibly in the sense that
people stopped making their own butter, cheese and bread because new industry
allowed them to buy those and thus to save some time.

> Does this period coincide with the slow demise of dialect in 
> Northern Germany Ron?

Actually, I'm tempted to say that the opposite was the case.  The decline had
been very fast in the 18th century, while by the mid and late 19th century a Low
Saxon language and literature movement grew and gathered strength (led by people
like Groth and Reuter).  This coincided with similar movements as a part of the
Romantic Movement in the west (Netherlands, Brabant, Flanders, Wallonia and
Picardy), east (Kashubia, Poland proper, Lusatia, Bohemia, Moravia and Ruthenia),
south (various German, Austrian and Swiss regions) and north (for instance the
works of Grieg, Andersen and Sibelius, and the Landsmål/Nynorsk language
movement).  It is quite clear that the Romantic Movement (which expressed itself
also in literature and in "landscape music" and had spread all over Europe) was
in great part a *reaction* to the Industrial Revolution, was seen as an antidote,
so to speak.  Low Saxon might have disappeared had it not been for this 19th
century reaction.  It ought to be noted as well that few of these movements were
isolated, that instead there was widespread awareness of a continuum across
borders.  Especially Klaus Groth was in letter contacts with colleagues in what
are now Belgium, the Netherlands, Poland and Russia, and they were all keenly
aware of a Lowlands bond between them, also translated between closely related
languages or created anthologies without translating.  Furthermore, others, such
as the Freudenthal Brothers of the Lunenburg Heath, were keenly aware of certain
linguistic and cultural ties between Northern Germany, England and Scotland, and
it was at that time that the odd English or Scots poem came to be translated into
Low Saxon.  (Few North Germans are aware of this these days.  They rather see
these people as local icons, and many of them oppose efforts to salvage old ties
across borders, including ours.) 

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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