LL-L "Lexicon" 2006.05.04 (01) [E]

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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L O W L A N D S - L * 04 May 2006 * Volume 01
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From: "Elsie Zinsser" <ezinsser at icon.co.za>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2006.05.03 (03) [E]

Hi all,

No, I go with Gabrielle on this.

This is one of my most favourite songs and it is
traditional and mom and dad are just not suitable!

Let's vote on it!

Elsie Zinsser

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From: "Global Moose Translations" <globalmoose at t-online.de>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2006.05.03 (03) [E]

Ron:
>It is not really a matter of personal likes and dislikes and whether or
>not one approves or disapproves of a given culture or lexical items.  It
>is a matter of authentic language.  Especially in poetic translation it is
>important to be sensitive to this, and the art is for the translator to
>translate someone else's personal feelings with empathy while suspending
>his or her personal feelings, biases, judgment, chips on shoulders and the
>like.

I completely agree. So why do you let your vanity guide your reaction?

Anyway, have it your way. Seems like you own the language, while I and
others "don't even know it". And if you choose to Americanize it, who cares.
It will happen to all and everything eventually.

Really, this is so ridiculous. Where in old British folksongs - which would
be the equivalent of an old LS folksong - do you hear parents addressed as
"Mom" (!!) and "Dad"? I challenge you to find just one!

"Oh father, oh father, you've done to me much wrong..."
"In the woods, dear mother, in the woods, dear mother..."

I don't want to bore you with a list of hundreds of passages - only the ones
that spring to mind right away.

If "Finis" means "you shut up now, because I know I am right", then so be
it: Finis.

Gabriele Kahn

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From: "Heather Rendall" <HeatherRendall at compuserve.com>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2006.05.03 (05) [E]

Message text written by INTERNET:lowlands-l at LOWLANDS-L.NET
Ben wrote >To me, Mother and Father as
appellations are reserved for older contexts such as bible stories and
works
of literature written in previous eras.<

I would agree wit this but would add also that the terms 'mother ' &
'father' describe the state of motherhood & fatherhood as well, so it
sounds strange to say to someone "How's your Mummy ?" or "How's your Mum?"
or "How's your Mom?" both the latter two would seem too intimate for
anything other than v close friends.

So if in a poem or a story it is "the" mother or father being described
i.e. a specific relationship to someone in the poem or story, I would
always plump for a translation of 'mother/father.

So they can be rather old fashioned or preferred appellations OR a
description of relationship. And Ben also marks the difference with his
added capital;
appellation = Mother/ Father      description  = mother/father

Heather

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From: speegled at slu.edu
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2006.05.03 (05) [E]

> Ron wrote:
>
> In Low Saxon (Low German), _Mouder_ ~ Mudder_ (<Moder> ~ <Mudder>) and
> _Vadder_ ~ _Vader_ without articles are exactly the equivalents of what in
> English is now "Mom" and "Dad," namely appalations or names, not nouns.


Ben wrote:
>
> If I called my father "Father," it would be seen as very strange and he
> would probably respond with awkward distaste. To me, Mother and Father as
> appellations are reserved for older contexts such as bible stories and
works
> of literature written in previous eras. Mommmy and Daddy, on the other
hand,
> are totally for little kids. My parents reported to me with disgust that
> when they were in North Carolina to see my paternal grandparents, they
heard
> adults calling their parents Mommy and Daddy. Yee that repulsed me.
> Ben

I am not sure where you are from, Ben, but Mommy and Daddy stay with many
people (though I guess not most?) into adulthood in the South, as you
found out when you visited North Carolina.

Also, Mother and Father are not dead as appelations; my father refers to
his mother solely as "Mother", as do his siblings.  I refer to her as
"Grandmother", and my kids refer to here as "Great-Grandmother".  This was
a mouthful at age 2, but now they know that is just her name, and don't
think twice about it.  This is how she likes it, and I feel very strongly
that people should respect her wishes.

What is interesting to me is the very strong feelings this topic brings
out.

Darrin Speegle

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