LL-L "Idiomatica" 2007.08.06 (01) [A/D/E]

[Lowlands-L List]

L O W L A N D S - L  -  06 August 2007 - Volume 01

=========================================================================

From: " J.Liek" <ir.j.liek at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2007.08.05 (05) [A/D]

Lowlands-L List schreef:

From: R. F. Hahn
Subject: Idiomatica

Jakob skryf hierbo:

> Ik kan Afrikaans goed lezen, maar stadig ken ik niet.

Ek ken die Afrikaanse woord "stadig" as 'n betekenis vir "geleidelik" of
Nederlands geleidelijk, langzamerhand of langzaam, Engels slow(ly) of
gradual(ly). Maar kan dit ook "konstant" beteken, soos Nederlands
standvastig, bestendig? In Nedersaksies van Duitsland sê ons stedig (of
stevig) vir Nederlands standvastig of bestendig. Ek glo dis die umlaut-vorm
van Middelsaksies stadig , en as 'n leenwoord is dit nog stadig in Deens.

 > Jan Lul (sul)

Je verhaal is onvolledig. Ik weet wel wat het Nederlandse woord „lul"
betekent. Maar wat voor een mens zal een „Jan Lul" zijn?

 Groete,
Reinhard/Ron

 Zoals erachter staat. Iemand die over zich heen laat lopen, die geen eigen
mening heeft. In Web-woordenboek
http://www.vandale.nl/opzoeken/woordenboek/?zoekwoord=sul
vind ik:
 persoon die alles goedvindt, die over zich laat lopen => *doetje, een brave
borst, een zacht ei, snul, softie*
* *Bedankt voor de verklaring van stadig. Ik had al een vaag vermoeden in
die richting. Maar ook (als excuus voor mij) ook in het woordenboek
ontbreekt het.

Met vriendelijke groet,
    J. Liek
Boulevard de Ruyter 140 * 4381 KD * Vlissingen
tel: 0118 435 825  ||  mob: 0640 04 64 50

http://oostgat.googlepages.com


----------

From: Maria Elsie Zinsser <ezinsser at icon.co.za >
Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2007.08.05 (05) [A/D]

Haai Ron, Jakob,

Stadig in Afrikaans beteken ook vertraagd (mentally challenged),
ongemotiveerd, bedees en nie baie dinamies nie. Jan Salie pas dus goed
hierby.

Nee, Ron, stadig beteken nie konstant (standvastig) nie maar kan wel
'onophoudelik' beteken. (Bv: 'Daar was 'n konstante afplatting in die
behuisingsbedryf').

Groete,
Elsie Zinsser

----------

From: R. F. Hahn
Subject: Idiomatica

Folks,

I want to try to bring the rest of you in here by using English and
summarizing what basically transpired here in Afrikaans and Dutch.  There
may be some input by people that don't read these languages.

We've been discussing types of people described by expressions involving
personal names with or without modifiers. "Doubting Thomas" for a skeptical
person may serve as a good example. Elsie supplied other examples from
Afrikaans, some of which are international:

Herkules (strong)
Goliat (gigantic)
Die ware Jakob ("The True Jacob" = genuine)
Jan Salie (slow-witted?)
Judas (traitor)
Don Juan (womanizer)
Don Quichot (foolish dreamer)
Xantippe (belligerent wife)

Jakob added to this a Dutch vulgarism:

Jan Lul (whimp, indecisive person, person without an opinion)*
(* from lul, a word for 'penis', apparently related to English 'loll')

In the case of Low Saxon of Germany, there are a couple of interesting
things.

It typically involves true and once very common Low Saxon names that later
came to be replaced by their German equivalents, such as Jan (= John, Dutch
Jan, now replaced by Johannes, Hannes, Hans) and Hinnerk (= Henry, Dutch
Hendrik, now replaced by Heinrich, Hein, Heini).

Jan used to be so common that it served to denote the average guy, as in the
expression Jan un alle Mann ("Jan and all men"), sometimes Jan un sien
Maten("Jan and his mates"),meaning 'each and everybody (equally)',
sometimes also as the equivalent of
"every Tom, Dick and Harry," namely "every guy".

Then there is:
Dummerjan (< dummer Jan, "dumb Jan") 'stupid guy'

And here's an interesting one:

Jan Maat ~ Janmaat ("Jan mate") 'sailor'

This can be used as an ordinary noun denoting 'sailor'. Apparently,
shipmates called Jan used to be that common.

Then we have these:

iesern Hinnerk ("iron Hinnerk") 'strong man'
höltern Hinnerk ("wooden Hinnerk") 'slow-witted guy'

Right now I can't think of any involving women's names.  Can anyone else?

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/lowlands-l/attachments/20070806/69538be2/attachment.htm>