LL-L 'Names' 2007.01.04 (03) [E]

[Lowlands-L List]

L O W L A N D S - L - 04 January 2007 - Volume 03
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From: JRodenburg at aol.com
Subject: Names

Thank you Ron for raising the issue of pronouncing names. For reference,

Cairo, Illinois is pronounce Kay - row.
New Berlin, Illinois is New ber LIN.
And there a few other counterintuitive Illinois place names.

I have a similar issue to raise: pronunciation of peoples names especially
last names. My own name Rodenburg for instance is pronounced differently in
high
German. I don't know what the low German pronunciation is.

When my grandfather and his brother came to America, one kept the spelling
of
his last name Schröder (now Schroder) and other changed it to Schroeder in
an
effort to keep the pronunciation correct. It didn't work. Both names are
commonly pronounced as you would say them in English.

Can any guide by given to low German family name pronunciation?

Thanks for listening.

Viele Grüße aus Illinois
John Rodenburg
Rodenburg (Tarmstedt, Amt Rotenburg, Hannover)
Brunkhorst (Stemmen, Amt Rotenburg, Hannover)
Werner (Langen, Hesse-Darmstadt),
Steinke (Kreis Schlochau, Pommern)
Krause (Kreis Schlochau, Pommern)
Schröder (Warsow, Mecklenburg-Schwerin),
Meyer (Wechold, Kreis Hoya, Hannover)
Zum Mallen (Schierholz, Kreis Hoya, Hannover)
Röhrdanz (Mecklenburg-Schwerin)

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Names

Hi, John! Good to hear from you.

> My own name Rodenburg for instance is pronounced differently in high
> German. I don't know what the low German pronunciation is.

It depends on the dialect. It would be written either as *Rodenborg* or as *
Raudenborg* and pronounced ['roˑʊdn̩bɔːx] or ['raˑʊdn̩bɔːx], using
English-type spelling for non-linguists something like "ROE-dn-bawkh" and
"ROW-dn-bawkh" respectively ("oe" as in "doe", "ow" as in "cow", kh as in
"loch"). Considering the predominance of the areas of Hanover and
Mecklenburg in your family's origin, I'd put my money on the second
pronunciation.

Mind you, "Rodenburg" seems to be a semi-germanized form, "Rotenburg" being
"proper" German.

Many people with this name in Poland had their surname Raudenburg ~
Rautenburg polonized, typically to Garczynski or Klinski.  I don't know what
the Kashubian equivalents are.

> When my grandfather and his brother came to America, one kept the spelling
of
> his last name Schröder (now Schroder) and other changed it to Schroeder in
an
> effort to keep the pronunciation correct. It didn't work. Both names are
> commonly pronounced as you would say them in English.

I know Americans that pronounce the name Schroeder as "SHROE-dr" and others
that pronounce it as "SHREY-dr" -- and I include in this their own names.  In
German and Low Saxon names, *ö* is sometimes rendered as "ey" in American
English.

The name comes from Low Saxon and Middle German Schrader ~ Schrœder ( the
latter originally with an open, lax "œ" as in French *cœur*) 'tailor'.
Ultimately it goes back to an old verb *schraden* 'to cut', and this is
related to English "shred."  The equivalent German name is Schneider (from *
schneiden* 'to cut').

> Can any guide by given to low German family name pronunciation?

> Brunkhorst (Stemmen, Amt Rotenburg, Hannover)
   ['brʊŋkhɔˑst] (BROONK-hawst)

> Werner (Langen, Hesse-Darmstadt),
   ['vɛːnɝ] (VAI(R)-nuh) probably German

> Steinke (Kreis Schlochau, Pommern)
   [staˑɪnke] (STINE-key)
   Diminutive of "stone"?
   Germanicizations of Slavonic Pomeranian (Kashubian)
   kamiónka "little stone"?

> Krause (Kreis Schlochau, Pommern)
   German/Germanized: ['kraʊzə] (KROW-zuh)
   Low Saxon *Kruuse* ~ *Kruus'* ['kruːze] ~ [kruːˑz] (KREW-z(ey))
   (I suspect the actor Tom Cruise to have this one, or Spanish Cruz.)
   Originally "the frizzy-haired one"?

> Schröder (Warsow, Mecklenburg-Schwerin)
   German ['ʃrøːdɚ]
   Low Saxon ['ʃrœːdɝ] (SHRU(R)-duh)

> Meyer (Wechold, Kreis Hoya, Hannover)
   German ['maɪɚ] (MIE-uh)
   Low Saxon ['maˑɪɝ] (MIE-ah)

> Zum Mallen (Schierholz, Kreis Hoya, Hannover)
   It's German -- [ʦʊm'malən] (tsoom MAH-lun)
   If it came from Low Saxon, I'd guess it was:
   Ton'n Mallen [toʊn'maˑln̩] (tone MAHLN)
   and this seems to mean "by the crazy one,"
   "at the crazy one's," "where the crazy one lives"

> Röhrdanz (Mecklenburg-Schwerin)
   ['røːɝdaˑn(t)s]? (RU(R)-dun(t)s)
   perhaps derived from a Slavonic Pomeranian name
I hope this helped.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
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