LL-L "History" 2007.05.08 (02) [E]

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 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
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 S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)

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L O W L A N D S - L  -  07 May 2007 - Volume 02

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From: Henno Brandsma <hennobrandsma at hetnet.nl>
Subject: LL-L "History" 2007.05.08 (01) [E]

From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk >
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.05.06 (02) [E/German]

Does Old Scandinavian have a cognate?  Yes, apparently only Old East
Scandinavian, roughly Old Danish and Old Swedish: borg . An early Old Saxon
loan (considering geographic proximity)?  Old Saxon has burg (> Middle Saxon
burg, burch, borg , borch > Modern Borg ).  Furthermore, Gothic, whose
origin is somewhere in today's Southern Sweden, has baurgs .

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

 Regarding Norse place names in Normandy, I can only find two so far:

- Briquebec, which would possibly equate an English *Brickbeck*, or more
likely *Birkbeck* (that one actually exists).;
- Hambye, which without the "e" on the end, wouldn't look out of place in
Lincolnshire or Leicestershire.  *Hamby* would actually be an Old
English/Norse hybrid, since "ham" and "by" both effectively mean the same
thing - the place appears to be called "village-village"!

The presence of a Saxon root in Normandy, if that's what it is, is
interesting.  The Norse equivalent of "ham" would be "heimr", so I wouldn't
expect a modern "ham" form to arise from that.  The Saxons did settle in the
Loire Valley, so there is a possible connection there.

Paul Finlow-Bates


As an (interestin?) aside: there is (from1986 onwards) a West Frisian
rockband
called "briquebec" (named after the place in Normandy),which I believe is a
punon the West Frisian "brike bek" : crooked mouth (or some more vulgar
term: gab or something).
These sound identical....

Henno

sjoch http://www.bricquebec.nl/index1.html foar mear ynfo....

----------

From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.05.06 (02) [E/German]

A few more possibles:
- Mobecq has the "-bekr" element
and two places just south of Cherbourg with names that look very
Scandinavian, though I don't know if the are:
Hardinvast and Tollevast.

There's also a place on the Cherbourg peninsula called Dannery - Place of
Danes possibly? just guessing.

Also many places with the element Hameau, e.g Hameau sur la Mer.  Possible
saxon  "ham" relics?

Paul Finlow-Bates

From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>
To: lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM
Sent: Tuesday, 8 May, 2007 8:25:58 AM
Subject: Re: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.05.06 (02) [E/German]

Does Old Scandinavian have a cognate?  Yes, apparently only Old East
Scandinavian, roughly Old Danish and Old Swedish: borg. An early Old Saxon
loan (considering geographic proximity)?  Old Saxon has burg (> Middle Saxon
burg, burch, borg , borch > Modern Borg ).  Furthermore, Gothic, whose
origin is somewhere in today's Southern Sweden, has baurgs .

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

Regarding Norse place names in Normandy, I can only find two so far:

- Briquebec, which would possibly equate an English *Brickbeck*, or more
likely *Birkbeck* (that one actually exists).;
- Hambye, which without the "e" on the end, wouldn't look out of place in
Lincolnshire or Leicestershire.  *Hamby* would actually be an Old
English/Norse hybrid, since "ham" and "by" both effectively mean the same
thing - the place appears to be called "village-village"!

The presence of a Saxon root in Normandy, if that's what it is, is
interesting.  The Norse equivalent of "ham" would be "heimr", so I wouldn't
expect a modern "ham" form to arise from that.  The Saxons did settle in the
Loire Valley, so there is a possible connection there.

Paul Finlow-Bates

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: History

Paul,

Today I wrote:

3. Old Northern French *ham (cf. Picard ham, hem) > dim. hamel >
hameau 'village', probably derived from Germanic (see 1)

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

•

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