LL-L "Etymology" 2007.10.21 (01) [E/German]

[Lowlands-L List]

L O W L A N D S - L  -  21 October 2007 - Volume 01
Song Contest: lowlands-l.net/contest/ (- 31 Dec. 2007)
=========================================================================

From: "heatherrendall at tiscali.co.uk" <heatherrendall at tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.10.20 (03) [A/D/E]

Blinking Heck!  What have I unleashed ( say Ron would say!)

As so many have replied can I try and take them in some kind of order:

Ron asked: Are there old established families called Rugg in the area?
Nope! And we have names back to 1280 thanks to fairly complete Lay Subsidy
Rolls. We can trace 13 of our c 25 farm names to names i=on that roll. But
then the argument starts: Are the properties named for a person or a person
for the property. What is clear is by 1299 we have at least 6 names 'of the
Rugge' indicating that they all have a link to this single estate which is
1st mentioned as an estate in 1262.

So my gut feeling is that it's not a name origin.

Ron also said: What appears to have happened there is that the "b" of the
following "...by" (Scandinavian for "settlement" which replaced previous
"... berie" = "...bury" < "...burh" in the 1086 Doomsday Book 's
"Rocheberie") caused the final vowel of the first segment to be voices from
"k" to [g].

Now this I do like! And need to pursue all the variations of name we have
for the various properties : Pughs Rough, Ridgend & Ruggs Place/Hole. I will
have a gander at Ekwall's Dictionary of  Place Names and see if there are
more analogies.

Very interesting!

Sandy wrote

The distinction between such things as "rig" (Scots) and
"ridge" (English) is well-known, the "hard" sounds being Scandinavian
influences:

This is fascinating! One wouldn't connect this part of the world with
Scandinavian influence - BUT in the parish next to us ( Hallow/ Grimley) is
a farm still called Gumborn and we have seen mention of Gumbornus in the
same 1299 documents so it is a very old name and clearly NOT the usual
A/Saxon import.

(With supposedly a Dane's skin nailed to the west door of Worcester
cathedral one wouldn't suppose either the locals welcoming a Danish
immigrant or any Dane wanting to settle here so far from the safety of
Danelaw.)

Roland wrote:  dat Nederlands "rukken"

Is this connected to English ' to ruck one's chair' i.e. to scrape it
backwards while still sitting on it??

And so ultimately with the concept rücken/zurück    = back ?????

And Jonny wrote : But in ('Saxonic') Nordrhein-Westfalen I heard about
locations named _Rugge_ and they indeed could denote a place of former
'rough' character.

Excellent! Just what I was hoping for! I only have one reference
Ortsnamenbuch  and that is for Kärnten -so not much help!

And Jonny also added: Let me tell you some additional words about my own
experiences in investigating old location names

All of this and these examples are a wonderful warning in investigating
placenames origins. I shall save all of this. Many thanks, Jonny!

And all of you!

Heather

PS  'Kuddelmuddel' -  schönes Wort! Ein zukünftiges Lehnwort von LS aus nach
Worcestershire!

Vielen Dank!
----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Hi, Heather!

Yes, aren't we wonderful? What would you do without us? ;-)

So let's remember that the place is called "Rugg's Place."  Unless this is
based on later folk etymology, we can deduce two things about it:

   1. "Rugg" was a person or a person's estate. Alternatively, it was a
   topographic feature or a place dedicated to certain activities.

   2. It is a relatively recently created (or recreated) name, no earlier
   than during Norman times, for I would expect something like *Rugstead,
   *Rugsted, *Ruckstead or *Rucksted had it been created earlier (not
   mentioning possible versions with "j" or "ch" sounds).

Of course, person's estates' names tended to develop into surnames.

Maybe not in your area nowadays, but Rugg is a surname.  For example, the
name is discussed by a genealogy forum here:
http://genforum.genealogy.com/rugg/  It is traced back to Cheshire, Devon,
Dorset, Surrey and Yorkshire, also to Scotland (e.g., Perth). There's a
question about the American name Rudge there as well, apparently based on
the Dutch name de Rugge.

Also, there's a 16th-century saint called John Rugg. He was a Benedictine
monk of Reading.
http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/saintja3.htm
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~hadland/tvp/tvp4.htm

So not so fast, young lady!

I'm not sure if Jonny mentioned this already:

Rügge is a municipality near Flensburg in the German part of Schleswig. Its
Jutish/Danish version is Rygge.

Cheers!
Reinhard/Ron

Further links:
http://www.distantcousin.com/SurnameResources/Surname.asp?Surname=Rugg
http://www.houseofnames.com/xq/asp.fc/qx/rugg-family-crest.htm
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/lowlands-l/attachments/20071021/e7af6f5b/attachment.htm>