LL-L "Etymology" 2007.10.27 (02) [E]

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L O W L A N D S - L  -  27 October 2007 - Volume 01
Song Contest: lowlands-l.net/contest/ (- 31 Dec. 2007)
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From: Sandy Fleming <sandy at scotstext.org>
Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2007.10.22 (05) [E]
> From: R. F. Hahn < sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Phonology
>
> How do you know it's a case of Norse influence and not simply
> conservative phonology, i.e. non-participitation in diphthongization
> that occurred in English?
>
> It's similar in Low Saxon and West Flemish versus German and Dutch:
>
> Scots (uu): hús > hoose, tún > toon, út > oot
> Saxon (uu): hûs > Huus, tûn > Tuun,  ût > uut
> W. Flemish (uu > üü): hûs > uus, tûn > tuun, ût > uut
>
> English (uu > au): hús > house, tún > town, út > out
> German (uu > au): hûs > Haus, zûn > Zaun, ûz > aus
> Dutch (uu > üü > üi > œü): hûs > huus > huis, tûn > tuun >  tuin, ût >
> uut > uit

Ah, that explains that then! OK, it's not Norse influence!

What about a word like "huish" for house in Wessex dialects? Locals do
seem to be fond of saying that it's from Norse.

> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Etymology
>
> Hi, Sandy! You wrote:
>
> I don't think this sort of thing is normally written with the
> apostrophe, however. Certainly, "Bishops Caundle", near where I live,
> wouldn't be.

> I limited the examples to names that in the official spelling do have
> an apostrophe in it. There were those that in the official spelling
> did not have one, and I omitted those. I looked them up in government
> lists.

I checked a local map I have, and you're right. There's Bishop's Caundle
and also Stag's Park.

I think it must be that apostrophes are omitted from the roadsigns,
because most of what I know about English geography comes from driving!

Ron, you used the phrase, "The Caundle", have you heard or read this
somewhere? I would think that around here it would simply be referred to
as "Caundle" - except that because of the presence of Stour Caundle and
Purse Caundle I'd think it would always have to be "Bishop's Caundle".
But the three villages together would be referred to as "The Caundles",
and there might even be a roadsign pointing to them (for example,
there's East Chinnock, West Chinnock, North Chinnock and Middle
Chinnock, but I've seen a roadsign pointing simply to "The Chinnocks").

Double-barrelled villages here are usually referred to by their more
distinctive part, as long as the context supports the loss of
information (eg "Stoke-sub-Hamdon" is usually "Stoke", nobody here will
mistake it for Stoke-on-Trent or even Stoke St Mary, which is only half
an hour's drive away).

There's a strong bias towards using the first part of the name. I think
this is because many villages have the name of their feudal lord as
their second part, so that the first part is thought of as the actual
name of the village. For example, Haselbury Plucknett was given to the
Norman lord Alain de Plugenet, so really, it's always been Haselbury as
far as the common folk are concerned, and anyway, has to be
distinguished from his other places, such as Preston Plucknett (or
"Preston").

Exceptions to the first-part rule seem few and far between. Everybody
refers to Castle Cary as just "Cary", but this is assuming the much
smaller Lytes Cary to be of no importance.

Another exception is Queen Camel being referred to as "Camel" (although
again, this ignores West Camel). Then again, "Camel" is the original
name of the village, "Queen" was added to try to emphasise that an
English queen had once stayed there. This was important because the
village was attempting to achieve the status of a market town, but the
bid failed.

Sandy Fleming
http://scotstext.org/

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Hi, Sandy!

> What about a word like "huish" for house in Wessex dialects? Locals do
> seem to be fond of saying that it's from Norse.

I don't see how this could be the case, unless you argued that the [y:]-like
sound was taken from Scandinavian and the /-s/ became palatalized (in that
dialect) as a result.

(Norwegian and Swedish have undergone general vowel fronting and tensing
which resulted in medial /u/ and /o/ -- symbolized by a horizontal line
through the letters in IPA. I am not sure how far back that shift goes,
namely if it had been underway at the time of the Scandinavian  conquests of
Britain and Ireland.)

> Ron, you used the phrase, "The Caundle", have you heard or read this
> somewhere?

I think so, Sandy, unless it "proves" once again that I'm psychic as has
been alleged. ;-) All I can say is that I was sure it's called that when I
was writing that sentence.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
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