LL-L "Translation" 2008.04.06 (04) [E]

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L O W L A N D S - L  - 06 April 2008 - Volume 04
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From: Obiter Dictum <obiterdictum at mail.ru>
Subject: LL-L "Translation" 2008.04.04 (02) [E]

Heather wrote:
> I learnt recently ( tho' not on 1st April - thanks Jonny!) that solicitors
> used to be paid by the line - so it was in their interest to be long
winded
> and repetitive and make documents as long as possible.
> Can anyone confirm this?

Not exactly, especially these days. We lawyers bill and get paid for the
time we spend (or say we spend) tending to our client matters--irrespective
of results, unless we agree on contingency fees, and irrespective if you
follow our advice (if it's advice and not representing in court), or not.
This includes writing (letters and memos, and pleadings). Writing could
account for up to 95% of billable time when lawyers wrote with quills. Now
it is much less: we pull our model docs from model libraries on our
computers, or use precedent docs, and customize them for new clients' needs.

> It would be a good example of a style of language
> having been called into being by money!

That's true only half true.;-)

> so it was in their interest to be long winded
> and repetitive and make documents as long as possible

It is also in the interest of the client if her transaction ends up in
court. In common-law juristictions lawyers are trained to regard any
transaction as a potential disaster that the dumb layman irrestibly tends to
end up in court with! :-)

Groete,
Vlad Lee/Toyotomi Ri

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From: Sandy Fleming <sandy at scotstext.org>
Subject: LL-L "Translation" 2008.04.05 (07) [E]

> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Translation
>
> πεϫε·ιϲ̅ ϫε·ϣϥπε ετετν̅·ρ̅·παργε
>
> peje.IS. je.šwpe etetN.R.parage
>
> lit. "said Js. this become as-ye-pass(away)"
>
> For what it's worth, this is how I would translate it:
>
> - Jesus said, "May you be(come) such that pass (away)."
>
> Without wanting to go into much theological and philosophical detail,
> let me just say that I understand this to mean that the disciples (and
> everyone else) should acquire the mindset of those that are aware of
> the impermanence of their physical being, of those that fully know
> they will die, can die at any moment. In other words, they should
> think and act like sojourners, like those that are traveling through,
> staying only for a while, without specific attachment. To me at least,
> this is quite different from "passers-by" since "passers-by" suggests
> remoteness. One that stays for a while is not necessarily remote or
> outside. He or she may be involved without feeling permanently
> attached. To me, this is one of the often overlooked and misunderstood
> tenets that are identical or strikingly similar in Christianity and
> Buddhism.

Surely the same idea means something completely different to Christians
and Buddhists?

In Christianity, you die, you achieve permanence (and hope you've been
booked in at the right hotel!). In Buddhism, life is actually transient.

And then again, this is from the gospel of Thomas, so we're not even
talking about Christianity in the modern sense!

Sandy Fleming
http://scotstext.org/

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Translation

Well, yes, Sandy. I was referring to what I understand the original spirit
of the message, pre-canonization and pre-institutionalization
Christianityof the first century CE,
to have been.

Similarities with Buddhism are often so glaring (as has been explained in
detail by Thích Nhất Hạnh (Nguyễn Xuân Bảo) and others) that it gave rise to
stories about Jesus having been to India ...

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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From: Mike Morgan <mwmosaka at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Translation" 2008.04.05 (07) [E]

R/R (back from R & R) wrote:

> Coptic:
> πεϫε·ιϲ̅ ϫε·ϣϥπε ετετν̅·ρ̅·παργε
> peje.IS. je.šwpe etetN.R.parage
> lit. "said Js. this become as-ye-pass(away)"
> For what it's worth, this is how *I* would translate it:
> - Jesus said, "May you be(come) such that pass (away)."


Yes, your translation is certainly in keeping with the language of the text
itself (rather than a translator's added interpretation). The Gospel of
Thomas is GREAT for teaching / learning Coptic in that the crip (the widely
available published translation -- the one available 20 years ago anyway
when I studied Coptic) often gives a MISleading (mislead?) translation. So
the teacher can easily tell who knows their Coptic and who has copied
someone else's "homework".

But even the "be ye a passer by" can lend itself to a Four-Noble-Truths sort
of understanding of reality and the resulting philosophy of non-attachment
(and so, the "Buddhist" reading of the Gnostic Gospels came rather easy for
me since my "conversion" from the religion of my parents to a more "Eastern"
understanding of things had taken place years before studying Coptic --
something I cannot say for most of the Methodist Divinity school students in
the class with me!)

My proffered "don't get involved" was of course offered as an interpretation
of convenience ... it is often very easy to not get involved. Not being
attached is MUCH harder!

"This TOO shall pass."

MWM || マイク || Мика || माईक || માઈક || ਮਾਈਕ
================
Dr Michael W Morgan
Managing Director
Ishara Foundation
Mumbai (Bombay), India
++++++++++++++++
माईकल मोर्गन (पी.एच.डी.)
मेनेजिंग डॉयरेक्टर
ईशारा फॉउंडेशन (मुंबई )
++++++++++++++++
茂流岸マイク(言語学博士)
イシャラ基金の専務理事・事務局長
ムンバイ(ボンベイ)、インド
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