LL-L "Names" 2008.04.29 (02) [E]

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L O W L A N D S - L - 29 April 2008 - Volume 02
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From: Brooks, Mark <mark.brooks at twc.state.tx.us>
Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2008.04.29 (01) [E]

Peter wrote: "I have heard Bayzl but only on television shows from the US."

Right.  Around these parts (Texas) we would pronounce the herb and the
proper name the same way, i.e., BAYzl.  My sis-in-law and her husband attend
a Roman Catholic church in Houston which is affiliated with the Basilican
Brothers.  They call the saint associated with that order BAYzl.

Mark Brooks

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From: Elsie Zinsser <ezinsser at icon.co.za>
Subject: LL-L "Names" 2008.04.28 (03) [E]

*Hi all,*

*Ron, here in SA we say bazzle for both the herb and the person.*

*I've only heard bayzil used in the US.*

*Regards, *

*Elsie*
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From: Fonken, Gael M. [foga0301 at stcloudstate.edu] <foga0301 at stcloudstate.edu
>
Subject: LL-L Names

Ron and all,

    It seems that the name Basil traveled west with Crusaders returning
home. Not sure how, where, and when basil the herb traveled around the
world; but it seems that Basil is short for king ("basile΄us"). I can see
how it would have been pronounced with accent on the second syllable (
Basíle)… and how that would sound better with a unvoice "V" in front (Vasile).
 There is a prime minister in Romania with Vasile as a last name.

    Is this related to the way that *pre* and *post* nominal adjectives play
out regionally? The Anglo rhythm of sentences favors an abrupt, short Básil.
Names seem to be especially prone to this sort of shift. The point in my
defending 'Bazzle' as a *theologically-correct* pronunciation is not about
feeling it to be superior, just *correct in the context* of sharing research
with others beyond the US.  It sounds much less "American"…and yet still
recognizable as a part of a discourse between English-speakers.  Outside
that context (in the mainstream of just plain US folks), this "alternate"
pronunciation sounds pretentious—After all we are a nation that is famous
for rejecting anything to do with kings.

    However, most people here in the US would not know that St. Basil's
association with the name had already reversed this elitist edge long, long
ago. It is notable, though, that he was still a rather forceful guy. His
homeland of Cappadocia was known for being a muddy, rural backwater in those
days… Maybe that's where the phrase "stuck-in-the-mud" comes from. I think
"beat-around-the-Bush" comes from another less-than-urbane place and time
(like TX maybe).  Wonder how the herb fits into this?  It's interesting to
ponder over what favored modes of pronouncing words might carry along with
them.

Gael

*Ron wrote*:

"Proper" and "incorrect" ... hmm ... OK, so "Bazzle" is the
*preferred*pronunciation in English-speaking
* *Orthodox and Catholic monastic circles, but the "BAY-zil" pronunciation
is considered standard in many other circles. I don't think there's a
"proper" for the entire English language. Of course, those to whom the
ecclesiastic contention is important the "Bazzle" pronunciation may seem
superior.

After all, "Bazzle" is a far cry from the original Greek Βασίλειος (*
Vasíleios*). More "proper" or "correct" would be something like *Vasily or
even better *Vasiley (with a sharp "s" and the main stress on the second
syllable), thus similar to the Russian pronunciation. Almost all imported
names, especially Greek-rooted ones, are "mispronounced" in English, or
anywhere else. But they are standard anyway, and some have more than one
standard pronunciation, this being one of them. Which one is better would be
up to dialect and to personal preference.

 There is no greater intellectual crime than to address *with the equipment
of an older period* the challenges of the present one. *Bruno Latour*
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