LL-L "Etymology" 2008.02.01 (08) [E]

[Lowlands-L List]

L O W L A N D S - L  -  31 January 2008 - Volume 08
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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Joachim and I wrote:

So we can behold this question as resolved until further notice.

That's right, until further sudden eruptions of brilliance.

I should have known that brilliance would have to ensue soon enough. The
alternative would be to admit that I've missed the obvious.

I wrote earlier:

*Mank* < *mang* is used all over the language and is related to English
"among" and German *Menge*, also Low Saxon *mengeln* and *mengeleyren* 'to
mix'. It goes back to Indo-European **men(e)gh* ~ **mon(e)gh* 'plenty',
'bountiful', 'provide (bountifully)', also appears to be related to the
group "many," German *manch*, Low Saxon *mennig*, etc. It is -- and now pay
attention! -- also related to Old Saxon *mangon* 'to deal (with)', 'to
trade', 'to barter', and I do use the modern reflexive verb *bemengen *'to
deal with' (e.g., *Ik bemeng my geyrn mit spraken* 'I like dealing with
languages'). It seems to me then that there is a semantic side channel that
uses this word group in the sense of 'dealing' and possibly 'wares',
'goods', 'merchandise', 'trade', thus related to German *Menge* 'amount',
'assemblage', 'mass', 'batch', etc.

So **raab-mang-en* may be something like *"raap produce," namely along the
morphological lines of German *Grünwaren* ("green wares") 'greengrocer's
wares', 'produce'. Low Saxon has *groynwaren* (*Gröönwaren*, in the same
way), *groynsaken* (*Gröönsaken* "green things" > Danish *grøntsager*,
Norwegian *gr**øn(n)saker*, Swedish* grönsaker*) and *groyntuyg* (*Gr**ööntü
**üg,** Gr**ööntü**üch** *"green stuff," cf. Yiddish גרינצייג *grintsayg*)
for 'vegetables" in general, where German has *Gem**üse* ("matter for
mashing and mixing"). Cf. Low Saxon *mangmous'* (*Mangmoos*, "*mang*-mix/mash")
for '(odd) mix', '(eclectic) collection' (*mous* being related to French *
mousse* I assume).

Well, there's English "monger," as preserved in "fishmonger." It was still
very widely used in Middle English and in earlier Modern English, probably
still is in some dialects. Old Saxon has *flesmongere*, Old German *
vleischmanger*, and Old Norse *kjöt-mangari* for 'butcher'.

A monger is a merchant, trader, dealer or trafficker. In my Middle English
verse version of the wren story I use *costermonger* 'apple vendor', 'market
crier':

*That gart the Wrenne scolde stronger
And yelle lyk a costermonger.
"Nay, nay, old cherl, nan right hastow!
Coomstow agayn … wel, in a throw …*

(That made the Wren scold more strongly
And yell like an apple vendor.
"No, no, old chap, you've no such right!
Should you come again ... well, in no time ...)

http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/english-m-verse1-roman.php

Old English has *mangere* and *mancgere*, *Old Saxon mongari*, Old German *
mangari* and *mengari*, Old Norse *mangari*.

Some believe it to come from Latin *mangō* 'trader' (especially 'slave
trader' ...), apparently related to Greek *μάγγανον* *mánganon* 'to charm',
'to bewitch'. Derivatives from Latin *mangō* are *mang**ōnic**ō* and *mang**
ōnium*, both denoting the act of touching up something before offering it
for sale. (There's a sinister story behind this, obviously.)

However, "monger" etc. appear to go back to common Germanic in the verb "to
mong" (to trade goods) and its relatives (Old Saxon *mangon*, Old Norse *
manga*). (Those that defend the Latin loan hypothesis explain these verbs as
back formations from "monger" etc.) Furthermore, we have the related group
of words related by "among" (< *ymong*), Low Saxon *mang* > *mank* 'among',
etc., as mentioned earlier, and there's German *(ver)mengen* 'to put
together', 'to mix'. There seems to be the basic idea of 'to mess/deal
with', 'to be mixed up in'. (See my quoted text above.)

Sorry, but the saga had to continue.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
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