LL-L "Etymology" 2008.02.23 (04) [E]

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L O W L A N D S - L  - 23 February 2008 - Volume 04
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From: foga0301 at stcloudstate.edu
Subject: LL-L "Etymology"

So Ron,

    I'm trying to read your expert analysis. Are you saying that a Persian *
bāġ* (باغ) 'garden' is linked to the English word *park* with the emphasis
on "envelop," "fence off," "enclose" or "enclosure" *rather than* 'margin' ,
'sharp edge', 'rim', 'blade', 'fence or hedge of a garden' which is linked
in turn with the Germanic **hag(Vn) *and the English word *garden*? The
narrow gap between 'b' and 'p' in Arabic is easy to see, but how does one go
from 'r' to 'g'—in the shift from *bāġ* to *paribhū *(परिभू), *parici *(
परिचि), etc? Is this what you were saying?    I'm obviously new at phonetic
sleuthing and miss a lot.

   Reflecting on these two lists of words, though, there sure is a lot of
focus in Islam on organic inner spaces—to be understood and valued after so
much experience with Byzantine-like public spaces. Culturally, I read a
similar but different emphasis in Western European culture(s) on divisive
edges—even in the word *hedge*. I would not ever think of a hedge as
enclosing grazing land in Pakistan… the goats are too skilled at going
anywhere. But I'm getting off the topic of "words".  Thanks for helping me
think in a new way.

Gael Fonken

p.s. Another little bit of info on the semantic link you mentioned [*dhārā*(
धारा): 'margin' , 'sharp edge (e.g. of a weapon)'…] is that there is a small
town in Pakistan up near the Afghani border that makes guns (by hand). It's
called *Dhārā…*if I heard them correctly.* * I doubt if tourists go there
these days, but back when, you could get a gun built into a cane or even a
pencil and real bullets to put in it.  Sort of think they were playing off
of James Bond movies more than any Persian link. Things have changed a lot
since then.
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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Oh, no, no, no, Gael!

First of all, I'm not saying it but throwing it out there as a wild idea (of
the type "Hmm ... I wonder ..."). I don't even know if it jives with
historical Persian phonology.

Secondly, if this wild idea held any water at all, I'd assume the /r/ got
"swallowed," i.e. the long vowel is a result of contraction. I rather doubt
this now, considering preservation of /r/ in other cases; e.g.,

Avestan | Old Persian | Parthian | Farsi | Balochi | Kurdish | Zazaki
tares- | tạrsa- | tars | tars | terseg | tirs | ters (fear)
dvara | duvara | dar | dar | -- | derge ~ derî | -- (door)
barez | -- | bârež | borz | bwrz | -- | berz | berz (tall)
vehrka | varka- | -- | gorg | gurkh | gur | verk (wolf)

English "parish," like for instance German *Pfarre* ~ *Pfarrei* (Low Saxon *
Parr*) 'parish' and *Pfarrer* 'parish priest', are supposed to go back to
Medieval Latin *parricus* 'enclosure', which is also supposed to be the
origin of "park" and of German *Pferch* 'enclosure', similarly English
"parrock" and Middle Dutch *per(ri)c*. I can see the latter group being
directly derived from Latin *parricus*, but the previous group, although
probably related, may either have been derived a different way or people at
that time analyzed *parricus* as a compound based on **parra* or **parri*.

If there is a trace of this **par(r)-* in the sense of 'enclose',
'partition', 'block off', etc., then I have another wild one involving the
somewhat elusive lexical prefix **s-*: German (also Dutch) *sperren*, Low
Saxon *sparren*, 'block off', 'impede', German *Sperre* ' (road) block', *
Sparren* 'rafter', 'beam', English "spar" 'rafter', 'beam', Old Norse *
sperra*  'rafter', 'beam', 'block'.

At least it may be food for thought and a challenge for our etymologists.

Welcome to the wild and wonderful world of etymology, Gael! It offers
thrilling rides through time and space, and it also offers new ways of
looking at cultural concepts, social evolution and human perception. Some
find those rides addictive. It's not all frivolous fun. You often stop in
wonderment when you realize that it all boils down to a fairly small number
of word roots. And at that point it no longer seems absurd to go beyond what
we now consider a language family, to consider relationships on grander
scales.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
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