LL-L "Language varieties" 2008.01.07 (06) [E]

[Lowlands-L List]

L O W L A N D S - L  -  07 January 2008 - Volume 06
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From: Marcel Bas <roepstem at hotmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2008.01.07 (01) [E]

Hi Ron, you wrote:

"I've added the SAMPA and orthographic bit.

Isn't this just "ordinary" pronunciation of London, England?"

Exactly, that's what I thought, too. And it's too prestigious to be Estuary
English, that's right.

Regards,

Marcel.

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language varieties

Right, Marcel. Estuary English is quite a different creature.

Take a look at and a listen to our Gary's translation of the wren story, for
instance:

http://www.lowlands-l.net/anniversary/estuary.php

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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From: foga0301 at stcloudstate.edu
 Subject: LL-L "Language varieties"

*Marcel wrote*

I have looked at the phonetic transcription and it looks like *good, solid
Standard English* to me. It is very similar to Received Pronunciation, but
since there are only a few people who speak this, I'd guess it is the
so-called Estuary English.

*Then Paul wrote* I think not! No-one who speaks Estuary English would go to
Regents Park to look at the flowers or bother searching for a grape pipped
covered cheese ( Tôme?) in a delicatessen!

*Reinhard wrote*
Perhaps some of you didn't look at the PDF file Gael referred us to. The bit
she gave us was not spelled correctly, and some of you may have been misled
by this.

Here is what it really says:
SAMPA: "wQt @baUt "g at UIN t@ "ri:dZn=ts "pA:k |…

IPA: ˈwɒt əbaʊt ˈgəʊɪŋ tə ˈriːdʒn̩ts ˈpɑːk |…

Thank you all for your comments,

   Marcel, Paul, and Reinhard, I'm sorry I didn't spell the words right.  I
pasted them in just the way Reinhard did and came up with "wQt @baUt
"g at UINt@  which
I changed to 'wat abaut 'gauin te .... because it looked better or at least
cleaner. I wasn't spelling, I was trying to *listen*. The IPA is humbling
because it *makes visible* the difference between spoken and written words.
When speaking, the sounds seem to come out different in every case, but we
put them on paper as if the rules held in all cases. No wonder children get
frustrated when learning to read.

    And Heather, I'm so unaware of who goes where and why in England.  We
have copies of those famous parks (e.g., Regents park) in places like
Chicago, but in name only.  And oh my, I couldn't figure out what *grape
pips* were and what they have to do with cheese. In another place the 'p'
sound stood in for the written 'b' and later for 't', so I wasn't able to
figure out that [pIps] were really be something that came from a grape. I
thought maybe the word [greɪp] was really 'great'…to make "great bibs" or
whatever...

Then I'm still not sure how to [ʧeɪndʒ] "*change*" a library book. We *check
them out* and *return* them.  So, it seems the words I couldn't get were the
ones that had no cultural reference for me.

    Thus I need to admit that I'm still not *seeing* *the sounds* all that
well. There is no substitute for good listening skills. A friend of mine
from a Minnesota farming background had to get a degree to do social work,
but hated book-learning… But it seems that he was really good with
languages. The talent allowed him to learn fluent Ojibwa from the families
of the native kids on the school bus he drove. Guess what, he's also a
plattdeutscher like me only older.  Again, I am humbled by such abilities to
listen to words… and now he has a degree too.

Luego/later,
Gael
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