LL-L "Etymology" 2008.03.01 (03) [E]

[Lowlands-L List]

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L O W L A N D S - L  - 29 February 2008 - Volume 03
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From: Sandy Fleming <sandy at scotstext.org>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2008.02.29 (06) [E]

> From: Sandy Fleming <sandy at scotstext.org>
> Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2008.02.29 (04) [E]

> I suppose 'Fleming' is a bit too obvious to need explanation on this
> list!

Oh wait, there are one or two etymologicalish things to be said here.

It seems that when Spain had claim to the Low Countries, the Spanish
thought of the Flemings as being of pink complexion (perhaps especially
when they actually went to Spain!).

Therefore the words "flamingo" and "flamenco" came to be used for the
astonishing pink birds and the dancing style that left the dancers all
hot and flushed.

I seem to remember that I first read these things here on this very
list. My father still refuses to believe any of it!

Sandy Fleming
http://scotstext.org/

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

OK, Sandy. I sort of go along with the ruddy complexion (or could it have
been red hair?) and bird thing but not with the dance thing.

Surely you have noticed the characteristic foot stomping of the flamenco
dance. Surely this comes from Lowlands clog dancing.

A detailed history of the flamenco is not known because the dance developed
in low-class and marginalized segments of society in Andalusia, Extremadura
and Murcia, and it used to be considered so vulgar that the learned classes
wouldn't dream of studying it. (Portuguese people have told me that they
still do, even more so because it is Spanish.)  Its actual roots and
certainly those of its music, are somewhere in Islamic-ruled Spain (الأندلس
*al-Andalus*). After the Reconquest and prohibition of all things other than
Rome-lead Christianity and whatever used to be associated with it, it was
only or mostly the Rom ("gypsies") that continued the tradition in relative
obscurity, probably because they didn't count, were the poorest of the poor
and were elusive (i.e., still largely nomadic at the time), yet officially
Christian. Soon after the Reconquest, Spain took it upon itself to save the
world from the Reformation, which led to the partitioning of the
Dutch-speaking world: the Protestant North and the Catholic South. Spaniards
lived in what is now Belgium and became familiar with "Flemish" culture.
(Natives of Antwerp are still nicknamed "seniors.")

My theory is that sometime around then the dance came to be renamed *
flamenco* ("Flemish," much like other dance forms came to be known as
"Schottisch," "Allemande," "Polka" (Polish), etc.). Some people claim that
the roots of the name existed before the Reconquest, that it is merely a
reinterpretation of Arabic-derived Andalusian **fela(h) mengu* 'singing
peasant'. Note also that *flamenco* was at one point in time used
interchangeably with *gitano* 'gypsy'.

By the way, surnames like Flemming, Fleming, Fläming, Flämming, etc. are
found in Germany as well.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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From: Mark Dreyer <mrdreyer at lantic.net>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2008.03.01 (02) [E]

Beste Jonny

Subject LL-L "Etymology"

Is there anyone round the world having an idea where this curious LS
'_Pataguten_', which on the first sight doesn't look/sound lowlandish at
all, could originate from? Additional we could try different spellings like
*'Paraguten', 'Paddaguden', 'Pallaguden', 'Pellagoen'* etc.

I have no contribution to make myself, except to note the curious first half
of the word, which sounds like our own Afrikaans 'Padda' = 'frog' English
has it too, in dialect or used to. Shakespeare's witches in Macbeth used the
word 'paddock' for the same.

Keep us posted!

Yrs,
Mark
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