LL-L "Language use" 2008.03.19 (01) [E/LS]

Wed Mar 19 14:52:23 UTC 2008

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L O W L A N D S - L - 19 March 2008 - Volume 02
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From: Utz H. Woltmann <uwoltmann at gmx.de>
Subject: LL-L "Language use" 2008.03.18 (04) [E/LS]

Marcus Buck schreef:

> Start translating South Park or the Simpsons (maybe not, I think they
> jumped over the
> shark and are on the road downward) or the newest comedy with Adam
> Sandler or whatever is popular into Low Saxon. Dr House or Battlestar
> Galactica or Heroes or 10,000 BC or try to create an international
> internet meme which involves Low Saxon (like the "Loituma Girl" created
> interest in the Savo Finnish dialect. "Loituma Girl" is no art, it is
> pure nonsense. But highly appealing, kind of psychedelic nonsense, it's
> "catchy").
>
> We need the masses on our side.
>
Dear Marcus,

There are some people very busy with translations into Low Saxon for
mass purposes, for example Hartmut Cyriacks and Peter Nissen. They
translated 'Harry Potter' into Low Saxon. Together with Reinhard Goltz
they translated 'Asterix'. They are also involved in translating the
daily news into Low Saxon, Hartmut Cyriacks and Peter Nissen for NDR
90,3 and Reinhard Goltz for Radio Bremen.
http://www.ndr903.de/programm/platt/norichten/
http://www.radiobremen.de/bremeneins/platt/news/
Many thanks to them and all the other people who vitalise our domestic
language Low Saxon.

Best regards
Utz H. Woltmann

----------

From: Wesley Parish <wes.parish at paradise.net.nz>
Subject: LL-L "Language use" 2008.03.18 (04) [E/LS]

Hi, Ron and Marcus, and all the other Lowlanders

For what it's worth, I would suggest starting up something like
http://antisf.com for new writers to cut their teeth on in
Platt/Niedersassisch or Frisian or such, with short stories and short-short
stories;
and since I am published on Antipodean SF, and retain my copyright, I may as
well say, if anyone wishes to start the ball rolling by translating and
publishing any of my stories:

http://pandora.nla.gov.au/pan/10063/20040601-0000/www.antisf.com/stories/story05.htm
http://pandora.nla.gov.au/pan/10063/20041001-0000/www.antisf.com/stories/story10.htm
http://pandora.nla.gov.au/pan/10063/20050401-0000/www.antisf.com/stories/story08.htm
http://pandora.nla.gov.au/pan/10063/20050901-0000/www.antisf.com/stories/story09.htm
http://pandora.nla.gov.au/pan/10063/20060401-0000/www.antisf.com/stories/story08.html
http://pandora.nla.gov.au/pan/10063/20061201-0000/www.antisf.com/stories/story06.html
http://pandora.nla.gov.au/pan/10063/20070101-0000/www.antisf.com/stories/story06.html
http://pandora.nla.gov.au/pan/10063/20070924-0001/www.antisf.com/stories/story08.html

feel free: you have my permission - alternatively, like the unfortunate
President of the Mid-Galactic Arts Nobbling Council listening to Grunthos
the
Flatulent reciting his Ode To A Small Lump Of Green Putty I Found Under My
Armpit One Midsummer Morning (Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy), you may
prefer to chew your leg off ... ;) - it's a free world!
(They really aren't that good - perhaps the best is Vheratsho on the
Rooftop:
the sort of critical comment I usually get is:
http://ozhorrorscope.blogspot.com/2005/09/review-antipodeansf.html
"Dust in the Wind by Wesley Parish is perhaps far too elaborate for
flash-fiction; a reader will need a couple of sittings to garner it. It's
intelligent, but the scope is limited.")

So, let's see all the young Platt writer-hopefuls outdo me.

Wesley Parish

On Wednesday 19 March 2008 15:01, Lowlands-L List wrote:
<snip>
- Show quoted text -
> From: Marcus Buck <list at marcusbuck.org>
> Subject: LL-L "Language use" 2008.03.18 (03) [E]
>
> Yes, performance artists and whatever is all great and I'm really happy
> about anybody doing unconventional stuff in Low Saxon. But I don't
> think, this will have much effect. Unconventional stuff in an
> unconventional language. But we need to make Low Saxon a language, that
> is not considered unconventional anymore. I don't know the work of Silke
> Manshold, but "recital and movement" sounds very much like "art" and art
> is not for the mass market. We need down to earth work, popular culture
> in Low Saxon, "South Park" in Low Saxon or whatever. Something that
> appeals to the mass. If it's done good, the people will love it and they
> will be given access to Low Saxon through this. It must be fun to be
> able to speak Low Saxon (not fun like "haha" but enjoyment). It must be
> cool to speak Low Saxon.
>
> I am 25 years old. And I don't speak Low Saxon to anybody in my age.
> Cause nobody of them speaks it (well some are able to, but don't do it
> either). If I started speaking Low Saxon, everybody would think "_Why_
> does he do that? Nobody of us does speak Low Saxon, why he?" And if I'd
> start talking about "language of itw own" and stuff like that, nobody
> would understand my arguments. They probably would say: "And you think
> you can stop change by talking to us in Low Saxon?" And they would be
> right. But if the public opinion among young people would be "Low Saxon
> is fun", I would be free to speak Low Saxon whenever I wanted to and I
> never again had to use "eccentric" arguments like "language on its own"
> or "every language is worth being maintained". "Fun" is argument enough!
>
> So, if you want to change something, don't waste your time on
> Shakespeare op Platt or Low Saxon Haikus or writing Wikipedia entries
> about long forgotten 19th century Low Saxon writers. Start translating
> South Park or the Simpsons (maybe not, I think they jumped over the
> shark and are on the road downward) or the newest comedy with Adam
> Sandler or whatever is popular into Low Saxon. Dr House or Battlestar
> Galactica or Heroes or 10,000 BC or try to create an international
> internet meme which involves Low Saxon (like the "Loituma Girl" created
> interest in the Savo Finnish dialect. "Loituma Girl" is no art, it is
> pure nonsense. But highly appealing, kind of psychedelic nonsense, it's
> "catchy").
>
> We need the masses on our side.
>
> Marcus Buck
>
> ----------
>
> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Language use
>
> Tom by't Water:
>
> The Lowlander designation fits the Low German speaker well. The Platt
> speakers along the North Sea Coast form a continuity from east to west,
> from the Baltic to the North Sea. The North Germans agreed to speak the
> official language of 19th Century unified Germany, High German. High
German
> became the language of state and success. Over the course of 140 years,
the
> importance of Platt has become reduced. If people wish to speak in their
> Platt, more power to them!
>
> Dat dout wy ook, Marcus, Marlou, Jonny, ik un 'n barg annere.
>
> Marcus, we are actually on the same basic page. It's only that I seem to
> have expressed my vision less clearly than intended.
>
> In a nutshell, what I meant was that release from confinement is needed,
in
> *all* direction, not only in unconventional and "sophisticated" (*
> anspruchsvolle*) art but also in pop culture and everyday spheres. And for
> all I care those that like it can continue the *Heimattümelei* tradition.
>
> "Ordinary" and "popular" is important; I'm all with you there. But
> "sophisticated" is also needed for the sake of image and for the sake of
> stretching and experimenting. Most people have been led to believe that
the
> language is too lowly to be a "world literature language," something that
> is quite wrong. A real language ought to be allowed and able to dance at
> all balls and to all manner of music.
>
> You are quite right. Use in areas of mass appeal is a very good way of
> popularization. But why only have one tune? Where there's pop, rock and
> country music, why not also have classical music, *koto *music and African
> drums? Besides popularizing, we also need to demonstrate variety.
Otherwise
> you end up with another box, just a different color one. Enough with the
> boxes! Open the lids and let it fly wherever it may!
>
> Kumpelmenten,
> Reinhard/Ron

--
Clinersterton beademung, with all of love - RIP James Blish
-----
Gaul is quartered into three halves.  Things which are
impossible are equal to each other.  Guerrilla
warfare means up to their monkey tricks.
Extracts from "Schoolboy Howlers" - the collective wisdom
of the foolish.
-----
Mau e ki, he aha te mea nui?
You ask, what is the most important thing?
Maku e ki, he tangata, he tangata, he tangata.
I reply, it is people, it is people, it is people.

----------

From: M.-L. Lessing <marless at gmx.de>
Subject: LL-L "Language use" 2008.03.18 (04) [E/LS]

Leve Marcus,

Du hest Recht mit Din Menen vunwegen dat Platt "fun" warrn schull. Dat is
dat "Image" vun Platt, 'neem dat mankeert. Leider is dat Image vun Platt
vundaag gor nich Shakespeare & Co., sünnern jümmers noch Betulichkeit,
schenkelpatschen "Humor" (d.h. biedere Zoten) un Höögliches ut verleden
Tieden. Dat Argument "junge Lü hebbt keen Lust, noch en Spraak to lehren, de
Leistungsdruck is al to groot, un vun Plattdüütsch hebbt se doch nix" döcht
gor nix, denn sünnerlich junge Lü doot allens Möögliche, 'neem se nix vun
hebbt, ok narrsches un unnüttes Tüüch, wenn dat bloots "fun" orr "cool" is
-- to'n Bispill sik Metall in't Lief piercen to laten etc. To'n Glück bün ik
sülven ut dat snaaksche Öller rut un weer ok as Jungdeern teemlich
nüchtern :-)) Man liekers heff ik mal mit en poor Frünnen versöcht, en Plaan
to maken för en nieges Image vun Platt un woans een dat dörsetten kunn --
"branding" hebbt wi dat nöömt, ganz op Germish. Is al poor Johr her. Vun
Ümsetten kann keen Reed nich ween, för sowat brukst Profis, Geld un bekannte
Persöönlichkeiten. Un dat is allens ok vigeliensch -- kannst op en Spraak so
eenfach en Logo setten, en Spraak, de (noch) vun mennig Lü snackt warrt...?
Man en Logo orr Symbool schull dat woll geven för Platt. De Freesen hebbt
ehr Seerosenblatt... veel maakt se da ok nich vun!

Man een Saak hest vergeten, meen ik, in Din Optelln vun Simpsons un Saken,
de een "plätten" schull: Saken, de eenfach nütt sünd. Wenn dat wat, wat een
*brukt*, bloots op Platt geev, orr op Platt gratis un op Hoochdüütsch
kostenplichtig -- dat weer ok en Stimulus för de Massen! Bi
Plattpartu.de<http://plattpartu.de/>heff ik Computerlehrünnerlagen to
Mainstream-Programme in Platt bröcht, för
de een annerwegens Geld betahlen mutt, de dat hier avers ümsüss gifft. Dat
harrn wi as Köder plaant, Lü na't Plattdüütsche antolocken. Klappt ok. De
"Computerie" is jümmers noch dat an'n mehrsten leeste Flack bi Plattpartu.
Dat will doch wat heten, nich? Da kunn een Hebel ansetten, nich bloots mit
Computersaken. (Sülvstkritik: Leider kaam ik nich mehr noog dorto, da Nieges
intostelln, wieldat för de annern Flacken veel mehr Bidrääg ingaht, de ok
alle publizeert ween wüllt. Wi harrn mal plaant, 2 niege Bidrääg per Week,
nu kunnen wi 5 orr 6 per Week rutbringen mit allens, wat de Lesers un
Mitmakers uns schickt. Naja, is ok schöön. Man dat Computerlexikon is
meddewiel totaal obsolet. Dat kost so veel Tied, dat allens to plegen! Un
leider is de ganze Rest vun Plattpartu teemlich lyriklastig woorn -- da
hebbt wi us to dull gahn laten :-) Mea culpa, Rudi sin culpa, Gertrud ehr
culpa...)

Lyriklastige Oostergröten!

Marlou

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language use

Hi and thanks, everyone, and happy Easter!

I should really condense my message further: "There's room and need for
everyone and everything."

I like Marcus' idea about a popular comic series. But I would prefer one
that is original and unique rather than rehashed from another language
version.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

P.S.: Interesting you'd mention *Loituma Girl*, Marcus. It's based on one of
my favorite Finnish songs, this one in the Savo dialect, as you said. The
words were added to a traditional polka tune in the 1930s, and this version
became immensely popular. What I particularly like about it is that it shows
off one of the special feature of Finnish: the rhythm created by short and
long vowels and consonants. The lyrics of the song, *Ievan polkka* (Standard
*Eevan polkka*, Eve's Polka), and an English translation are at the bottom
of the following page: http://www.noside.com/nsd6010note.html
There's a video of a brilliant *a capella* performance of the song (in which
the male voice seems to play the tuba and one of the female voices a violin
or accordion): http://www.city.fi/antitv/klippi/1748/
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