LL-L "Resources" 2008.03.22 (11) [E]

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L O W L A N D S - L  - 22 March 2008 - Volume 11
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From: orville crane <manbythewater at hotmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Resources" 2008.03.22 (06) [E]

A gift to me may be poison to you,
but poison will never be a gift to me.
The gift of poison just might be a pail of fish.

Das Gift-the gift-the poison-the fish

Beyond the Pale.
man by the water

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From: orville crane <manbythewater at hotmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Resources" 2008.03.22 (10) [E]

Ron,
beyond the pale- irrevocably unacceptable or unreasonable
The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language

'Beyond the Pale' sounds like a brand. Go for it!
Tom
man by the water

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From: Fonken, Gael M. [foga0301 at stcloudstate.edu] <foga0301 at stcloudstate.edu
>
Subject: LL-L "Resources"

Ron,

you suggest we call this new category:

"Beyond the Pale": A border-crossing guide for language learners

I'm still struggling with the meaning of "beyond the pale" since it is a
culturally specific phrase.  I do really like the second part though since
the act of border-crossing is what initiates the topic in every case (one
thinks).  But even this is not always the case when cultures get mingled and
re-designed by multiple users. Some language issues are a result of more
than one border "violation" or "transgression" at once.  On the border
between the US and Mexico, they talk about multiple intersecting borders and
the skills (as well as freedom and courage) needed to notice and reposition
one's self within the mosaic of actually-occurring options.

I'm thinking the most general term that signals the topic might be "border
matters" or "border negotiations" or "negotiating borders" or "negotiating
kinder-gentler borders" or "negotiating gentler language boundaries" or
"negotiating border conflicts" or "negotiating border conflicts gently" or
"language issues in between cultures" or "language issues across borders"

or to add some more positive twists:

"intercultural language skills & issues" or "border crossing language
etiquette" or "intercultural language etiquette" or "navigating
intercultural spaces" or "navigating the spaces between languages" or
"graceful transitions between languages" or "graceful interlanguage moves"…
or "respecting intercultural space(s)" or "language for traveling in
interspace" or "language skills for interspace travel"

or…maybe "border disorders" if you want something that rhymes (in English).
Also I wonder if there might be a combination of words from several
languages that would work even better here?

That's just what I'm thinking just now. Does that help?

Gael Fonken

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Resources

Thanks, Gael and Tom.

Gael, it does help. However, I like "Beyond the Pale" *because* it is
culturally specific, evocative of various images across cultures, thus is
easily misunderstood and therefore is a case in point. Furthermore, it
sounds "sexy." ;-) It raises eyebrows (because it sounds beyond the pale),
is edgy, arouses people's curiosity, draws them in -- this being opposed to
"boring" and/or "academic sounding," thus off-putting, when you try to be
too descriptive and specific. And at the same time it has the etymological
connotation of "on the other side of the border."

Let's see what others think.

Yes, Tom, "gift" is a case of "false friends," and it involves Low Saxon as
well (*Gift* 'poison', with the alternative *Venien*).

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
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