LL-L "Etymology" 2008.05.29 (02) [E/German]

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L O W L A N D S - L - 29 May 2008 - Volume 02
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From: Elsie Zinsser <ezinsser at icon.co.za>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2008.05.29 (01) [E]

Hi all,

Interesting theory, Ron.

I always thought hello/hallo related more to hale, health, heal, heil than
to

'look see'.

Elsie
The oldest attested form of it seems to be "hollo(w)", which may still be
used in some English dialects. In writing, it occurs in Early Modern
English; e.g., 1588 "Hollo, what storme is this?", 1989 "Hollow there, giue
me the beard I wore yesterday." "Hallow", which seems to be its hunting
variant and a nautical variant as well, occurs earlier, in Late Middle
English; e.g., *Halow, schypmannys crye*. In Early Modern English, the
variant "halloo" started appearing (cf. the German hunting call *
halli-hallo!*).

I consider it possible that all of the above come from **ho, lo!* or **ha,
lo!*, thus "Hah! Look!" or "Hah! See there!" In other words, I am assuming
here now obsolete "lo!" to be a part of it. This is related to Middle
English *lo* and Old English *lá*, which are believed to be shortened forms
of Middle English *loke* and Old English *lóca*, imperative of OE *lócian
"to *look" (cf. Old Saxon *lôcon*, Middle Dutch *loeken*, Old German *luogên
*, Modern German *lugen*, Modern Alemannic *luge* 'to look', 'to see', 'to
spy'). So, according to this theory, "hello" etc. originally meant something
like "Hah! Look there!" Developed into a greeting it might be compared to
colloquial Dutch *Ha, die ...!* ("Hah! that ...!"). Thus, "Hello, John!"
would be similar to Dutch *Ha, die Jan!*, originally an acknowledgment in
the form of a surprise expression ("Look there! It (that) John!").

According to the *Oxford English Dictionary*, which does not provide an
actual etymology of this word group otherwise, 15th-century French
*holà*"Hoe, there!" may figure into this, at least as far as the Early
Modern
English variant "hollo(w)" is concerned.

Personally, I am not convinced that French provided the base of this entire
word group, even though occurrence of similar words (e.g. German *hallo*)
may tempt us to assume a common donor language.

Is it not just as possible that this word group is much older than that,
perhaps even going back to the time before Germanic colonization of Britain?
In that case, late attestation could be explained with the fact that
colloquial expressions came to be written relatively late in Germanic
languages, mostly beginning with the Renaissance when people began to dare
to publish material other than that dealing with religion, law and commerce.
This makes for difficult and controversial etymologies of interjections and
other types of once colloquial expressions.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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From: jonny <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2008.05.29 (01) [E]

 Beste Ron,

just very short to '_hello_'/'_hallo_':

I've done a look into de.wikipedia and found

*Holla* bezeichnet:

   - einen zum Hallo <http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallo> verwandten Ruf zu
   einem Fährmann im Sinne von "Hol über"
   - eine germanische Göttin die als Holla,
Perchta<http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perchta>oder
   Hel <http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hel> bekannt ist und sich weiterhin in
   der märchenhaften Frau Holle
<http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frau_Holle>der Gebrüder Grimm wieder
findet

Hmmm?!

I agree with you that '_hello_' (G: '_hallo_') probably hadn't been just a
greeting at first- it seems for me (the continental European ;-)) more to
be an indication for very Anglo-Saxon 'free space' and their famous custom
to be under-stating and undercooled (so the rumor says ;-)), though also
over here it is becoming, more and more, a nonbinding welcoming- but
standing in contest with *'Hi'* and *'Moin'* (and* 'Pfüat Di' *in Bavaria).

Allerbest!

Jonny Meibohm

---------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Thanks, Elsie and Jonny.

Jonny cited:

   - einen zum Hallo <http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallo> verwandten Ruf zu
   einem Fährmann im Sinne von "Hol über"
   - eine germanische Göttin die als Holla,
Perchta<http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perchta>oder
   Hel <http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hel> bekannt ist und sich weiterhin in
   der märchenhaften Frau Holle
<http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frau_Holle>der Gebrüder Grimm wieder
findet

Are they serious?!

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
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