LL-L "Etymology" 2008.10.08 (02) [E]

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L O W L A N D S - L - 07 October 2008 - Volume 02
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From: Jonny <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2008.10.08 (01) [E]

Dear Heather,



thanks for your introduction into the Bavarian 'Muspilli'. It looks (and
sounds) strange for my Lowlandic brain and is hard to read I must confess -
with or without Rons tips (thanks - and good health to you!).



Allerbest!



Jonny Meibohm



PS: some material about 'spillon' in the next mail.


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From: Jonny <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2008.10.07 (01) [E]

Well, Heather,



now about today's use of _spellon_ etc.



A good time ago (about one year) we already have had a discussion about
_spellan_ etc., but I couldn't find it in the archive yet. But I remember
interesting results. As soon as I might succeed I'll inform you! We had
come to very interesting results, as far as I remember.



Thanks to the help of our *Niels Winther* I 'stroke a bonanza' in our
LL-archives:



Subject: LL-L "Etymoly" 2007.07.20 (08) [E]

Luc schreyv:

On a sidenote, this "spell" has nothing to do with Dutch "spel" or
German "Spiel", game. "Spiel" (in Bei-spiel) was a case of
"hineininterpretierung". It is however the same word as "spell", like in
"under a spell", and even "to spell words".



Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.07.22 (01) [E]

Jonny schreyv:

But, as I didn't write clear enough, in our dialect we normally pronounce
it *'Speel',* and so we do in *''_Speel_warks', 'Kinner_speel_', 'Bii_speel_
*', but as an exception from the rule older natives tend to say *
'Kar_spill_'* or even *'Kar_spell_*' with that *short* vowel. That's the
matter pricking up my ears- possibly here we have a hint for the different
roots of *'spilon'* - 'to play'  vs *'spellon'* - to tell  which
completely(?) got lost in Standard German.

(meanwhile I'd like to retract myself a little bit from these words...)



Item #15165 (21 Jul 2007 17:28) - LL-L "Etymology" 2007.07.21 (01)
[E/V]<http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0707C&L=lowlands-l&P=R4619>

(hope, you will be able to open it)



Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.07.18 (02) [E/German]

Luc again; he quotes "Kluge" (a famous German etymological dictionary):

*Beispiel* Sn std. (12. Jh., Form 15. Jh.), mhd. bīspel, andfrk. bīspil
"Gleichnis, Redensart". Ebenso ae. bispell, eigentlich "das dazu
Erzählte", zusammengesetzt aus bei und g. *spella- n. "überlieferte
Geschichte, Mythos" in gt. spill, anord. spjall (meist Pl.), ae. spell,
as. spel, ahd. spel, das sich bei gleicher Lautform (*spel-) nur mit
arm. ara-spel "Sage, Sprichwort" vergleicht; weiter vielleicht mit s
mobile zu den unter befehlen aufgeführten Verwandten von l. appellāre.
Der Vokalismus ist seit spätmittelhochdeutscher Zeit sekundär an Spiel
angeglichen worden (vgl. Kirchspiel).
Die heutige Bedeutung "Beispiel, Muster, Vorbild" beruht auf einer
Lehnbedeutung von l. exemplum, das u.a. "Gleichnis" und "Vorbild,
Muster" bedeutet.



Subject: LL-L 'Etymology' 2006.10.08 (02) [D/E]

Jonny e.a.; a lot about the thread



Currently I found something more.



DRW (Deutsches Rechtswörterbuch) quotes 'Kluge':

spel(l) 'Rede, Bericht, Botschaft'



And - last but not least -  GRIMM tells us, that people in the Middle German
region, between the South of Thüringen in the East and the Western North of
Hessen, still use for example

spêlen gân, ausgehen um zu plaudern etc.



This might show you, that the successors of _spillon_ or _spellon_ are still
in use, close to their old Gothic roots.



(Sorry for the overlength of this posting...)



Allerbest!



Jonny Meibohm


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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

I crawled out of bed to tend my flock for a little while.

Thanks for the wishes, Jonny.

I was under the impression that the Old Bavarian title Muspili was related
to Muspel, i.e. Muspelheim, thus to Old North *Múspell** *and *Múspellsheimr
*"Flameland", the realm of fire, that the Poem *Muspili* was a Christianzed
version of the Norse Ragnarökr (*Ragnarökr ~ Ragnarökkr*), the "Twilight of
the Gods".

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
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