LL-L "Resources" 2008.09.26 (01) [D/E]

Fri Sep 26 16:10:49 UTC 2008

===========================================
L O W L A N D S - L - 26 September 2008 - Volume 01
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please set the encoding mode to Unicode (UTF-8).
If viewing this in a web browser, please click on
the html toggle at the bottom of the archived page
and switch your browser's character encoding to Unicode.
===========================================

From: Mari Sarv <mari at haldjas.folklore.ee>
Subject: LL-L "Resources" 2008.09.25 (02) [E]

 We have one replica-barge here in Tartu (by the way, I'm going to trip
tonight)

They use sometimes the term „koge" about it.

http://www.lodi.ee/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=5&Itemid=9

Mari Sarv

Estonia

From: Wesley Parish <wes.parish at paradise.net.nz>
Subject: LL-L "History" - Bremen cog et alii

Hi.

I'm interested in a vessel called the cog, a Friesian/Saxon vessel, it
appears, the workhorse of the Hanseatic League, and the inspiration for the
Mediteranean carrack, which, mated with the Hispanic/Maghreb xebec/caravel,
produced the galleon, which after much effort, produced the modern ship.

There's been a cog found in Bremen, and several replicas built; there's been
a
cog found in Denmark, an earlier vintage, and various bits and pieces
archeologists have discovered at various times and places.

I'm thinking, I can't be the only person who'd like to have a central
resource
for this vessel.  (Among other things, I have yet to find a site that has
its
lines - I'm hoping one of these days to built a half-sized replica, so that
when people tell me to get lost, I can comply for once! ;)

Thanks

Wesley Parish

-- 

Wolfram Antepohl

Lindesbergsgatan 4

582 53 Linköping

013-125243

073-6002667

wolfram at antepohl.se

----------

From: Kevin & Cheryl Caldwell <kevin.caldwell1963 at verizon.net>
Subject: LL-L "Resources" 2008.09.25 (02) [E]

 I guess that would be English "cockle."

Kevin Caldwell

From: Wolfram Antepohl <wolfram at antepohl.se>
Subject: LL-L "Resources" 2008.09.25 (01) [E]

Hi Wesley!

You may find these sites interesting: http://www.koggmuseet.se/ and
http://www.hansekogge.de/. They are in Swedish and German respectively, but
alltogether dedicated to the cog. There´s quite som contact information -
maybe those are the people to get in touch with when thinking of a central
resource.

Btw, the "hansekogge"-site  mentions that the word "kogge" is related to a
comman LL word for mussel. I found "kokkel"/"kokhaan" in Dutch. Anybody
aware of other LL cognates?

Greetings

Wolfram

 ----------

From: Roland Desnerck <desnerck.roland at skynet.be>
Subject: LL-L "Resources" 2008.09.25 (02) [E]

Beste Laaglanders,

Het woord "kogge" is bij ons goed bekend en gekend. Het was in de late
middeleeuwen een houten handelsvaartuig met mogelijkheid tot goede
verdediging van de handelswaar. Er konden immers op voor- en achterschip
stellingen (met kantelen) aangebrcht worden. Deze relatief grote vaartuigen
(veel groter dan de open schuiten) hadden naast de gewone schepelingen ook
soldaten aan boord ter bescherming van de kostbare handelswaar. Aanvankelijk
waren deze stellages op voor- en achterschip afneembaar, maar geleidelijk
vergroeiden ze tot achter- en voorplecht. Ze hadden kantelen en werden dan
ook voor- en achterkasteel genoemd.

Dit woord achterkasteel kennen wij in ons dialect nog ter aanduiding van het
achterste, je poep (wat ook al uit het Latijn "pupis"0 = achterschip,
komt!).

De grootste koggen werden hanzakogge genoemd. Vele lagen er te Brugge!

De kleinere werden soms ook voor de visserij ingezet. Die hadden dan geen
"kastelen" en werden gezamenlijk beschermd door konvooischepen die toen
"vreitscepen", vredeschepen genoemd werden (nu zijn het oorlogsschepen)! Ze
konden ook afspreken elkaar bij te staan tot in de dood, dit noemde men
"gezworen varen". Als er één door piraten aanghevallen werd, dan trokken
alle anderen daarheen om te helpen! Dit was zeker het geval in de hoogtijd
van het haringvissen, d.w.z. na halverwege juni.

Deze periode werd de "haeryncteelt" genoemd, de periode ervoor de
"voorvanc", die erna "de achtervanc". Interessant voor onze medetaalvorsers
die het eerder al hadden over telen, teelt, veeteelt, teelaarde en ...
misschien ook teelballen haden willen vermelden!

Ook dit nog: de familienaam "Cogghe" komt ruimschoots voor hier in
West-Vlaanderen en zeker aan de kust!!

Wij kennen ook een zeer oude Oostendse uitdrukking:

- kogge zien : buiten tel zijn, niet meetellen

- kogge zien én gin tél: gevonden bij De Bo, West-Vlaams Idioticon, blz.
1471: Te Oostende zegt men " kogge zijn en geen tel" of enkelijk "kogge
zijn" voor niet mederekenen Dat neefken is uit zi!jn ooms testament
gesloten: 't is kogge. De Bo heeft dit omstreeks 1850 te Oostende
opgetekend!

Toetnoasteki!

Roland Desnerck

Oostende

West-Vlaanderen.

 ----------

From: Kevin & Cheryl Caldwell <kevin.caldwell1963 at verizon.net>
Subject: LL-L "Resources" 2008.09.25 (01) [E]

Here's some information on the cog:

http://www.abc.se/~m10354/mar/cog.htm<http://www.abc.se/%7Em10354/mar/cog.htm>

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Cog-%28ship%29

And if you can read German, there's this replica:

http://www.hansekogge.de/hkwcms/index.php?index

And a Dutch-built replica:

http://www.kamper-kogge.nl/

Kevin Caldwell

 ----------

From: Wesley Parish <wes.parish at paradise.net.nz>
Subject: LL-L "Resources" 2008.09.25 (01) [E]

Hi.

Thanks for the responses.  FWIW, I've seen the English word "cockle"
used "colloquially" for a small boat.  Some of the books I've been reading
lately on mediaeval shipping point out that the Hanseatic cog originated as
a
dugout with planked-up sides, quite similar to the way the Polynesians built
up their ocean-going canoes.  I can see it would've remained in use, even
when the cog became a fully-planked vessel as big as a modern-day ferry.

I found the Deutsches Schiffahrtsmuseum:
http://www.dsm.museum/MA/cog.htm

I tried to contact one of the staff there, Dr. Per Hoffmann, but never got a
reply.

And there's this:
http://www.bremerhaven.de/sixcms/detail.php?id=13309

I've also come across this site:

http://www.abc.se/~m10354/mar/cog.htm<http://www.abc.se/%7Em10354/mar/cog.htm>

which has urls to these sites:
http://www.abc.se/~m10354/publ/paernu.htm<http://www.abc.se/%7Em10354/publ/paernu.htm>
http://www.abc.se/~m10354/mar/danzig.htm<http://www.abc.se/%7Em10354/mar/danzig.htm>
http://www.abc.se/~m10354/mas/981mkogg.htm<http://www.abc.se/%7Em10354/mas/981mkogg.htm>
and:
http://www.abc.se/~m10354/uwa/shipping.htm<http://www.abc.se/%7Em10354/uwa/shipping.htm>

Then there's these:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/guernsey/content/articles/2004/07/27/cog_ship_feature.shtml
http://users.pandora.be/urbiehome/KOGGE.html
http://www.koldinghus.dk/Default.aspx?ID=585

The Danish one gives the locations of a number of cog wrecks.  It appears
there's three wrecks in the (former) Greater Frisia, and the rest have been
found in the Hanseatic League trading partners' territories.

From what I've read, the cog owed its success to a couple of things: it was
flat-bottomed with a shallow draft, which meant it could sail in quite
shallow harbours and rivers; and it had a high freeboard, which meant a
small
crew could defend it against a much larger pirate's crew - particularly as
most of the pirates in the Baltic were using the viking dragon ships, which
had a low freeboard.

Wesley Parish

> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Etymology
>
> Wolfram asked under "Resources":
>
> Btw, the "hansekogge"-site  mentions that the word "kogge" is related to a
> comman LL word for mussel. I found "kokkel"/"kokhaan" in Dutch. Anybody
> aware of other LL cognates?
>
> One of the cognates is English "cockle".
>
> The biological family is *Cardiidae* (cf. German *Herzmuschel* "heart
> mussel", Dutch *hartschelp ~ kokkel*, Danish *hjertemusling ~ jolle*,
> Norwegian *hjerteskell*, Swedish *hjärtmussla ~ musselskal*, Polish
> *sercówka, Ukrainaian серцевидка*, Russian *сердцевидка ~ плевел*,
> Lithuanian *širdutės, Latvian sirsniņgliemeņu dzimta*).
>
> Old English: coccle
> Middle English: cokkel
> Scots: cokkil, cockill, cockle
> < Medieval Latin: cocculus, dim. of *coccus*, Greek *kokkos* 'kermes
berry'
>
> Regards,
> Reinhard/Ron

--
Clinersterton beademung, with all of love - RIP James Blish
-----
Gaul is quartered into three halves.  Things which are
impossible are equal to each other.  Guerrilla
warfare means up to their monkey tricks.
Extracts from "Schoolboy Howlers" - the collective wisdom
of the foolish.
-----
Mau e ki, he aha te mea nui?
You ask, what is the most important thing?
Maku e ki, he tangata, he tangata, he tangata.
I reply, it is people, it is people, it is people.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/lowlands-l/attachments/20080926/0419f275/attachment.htm>