LL-L "Education" 2009.08.25 (01) [EN]

[Lowlands-L List]

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L O W L A N D S - L - 25 August 2009 - Volume 01
lowlands at lowlands-l.net - http://lowlands-l.net/
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From: Roger Thijs, Euro-Support, Inc. <roger.thijs at euro-support.be>
Subject: LL-L Language education

I read in "Het Belang van Limburg" of yesterday that *Latin* is gaining
popularity in Limburgish school, while (classical) *Greec* is on the
decline:
http://www.euro-support.be/tmp/ols/lat1.jpg
http://www.euro-support.be/tmp/ols/lat2.jpg

I could not resist for getting a couple of old books from the dust.
I have thrown away all my books of Latin and Greec from my secondary school
time, except for my *grammars* and *dictionaries* of Greec and Latin. As we
belonged to the bishopric of Liège at the time, our books came from Dessain
in Liège and were translations of publications by the same from the French.
French books are pretty much focussed on details, which has advantages for
some freaks, but eventually makes it difficult to find one's way.

At the time (*fifties & early sixties*) we had a simple school system:

a - ages 4-6: 2 yrs: papschool = bewaarschool = kleuterschool -
Kindergarten, teached by a "Freubel" (language: *Belgian Dutch mixed with
Limburgish*)

b - ages 6-12: 6 yrs: pimary school (in *Belgian Dutch*), 2d language *
French* starting at 5th yr: with 4 hrs/week in both 5th and 6th year

c - ages 12-18: 6 yrs: secundary school, with a choice between:
 - technical education: "*ambachtschool"*
 - more theoretical education: "*humaniora".*
At the college of Tongeren we had two humanioras:
 - *Latin Greec*
 - *Modern* (with English already from the 2d year on, and with more maths
and trade related topics)
It was a tradition that the kids with good results were drained towards
Latin-Greec (for getting a reserve of potential Roman-Catholic priests I
guess; also physicians needed to know some Latin, although their handwriting
was generally that bad, that it didn't matter what language it was.

My middle school was "Our Lady's College" in Tongeren.
The terminology at the time:
- *College*: RC middle school for boys (in Tongeren run by the bishopric)
- *Lyceum:* RC middle school for girls (in Tongeren run by the sisters of
the Benedictine order)
- *Atheneum:* Public middle school (boys and girls)
For the Technical middle schools (Ambachtschool, Vakschool) I don't remember
exacly. For the RC girls it was run by the Picpus sisters in an estate where
the "Little Jesus of Prague" was venerated. The poor guy disappeared, since
there are no susters Picpus anymore in Tongeren. Last year I found an exact
replica of his statue in the Franciscan church on Kalaupapa, Molokaï.
["*College*" is also the name for some buildings at Leuven university. Most
of them are used for lodging students.]

As for the languages we got for language hours at the "*Grieks-Latijse
Humaniora*":

1th year - *6e Latijnse*  *Latin* 9 hrs/week, *Dutch* 6 hrs, *French* 5 hrs
2d year - *5e Grieks-Latijnse* *Latin* 6 hrs, *Greec* 5 hrs, *Dutch* 5 hrs,
*French* 5 hrs
3d year - *4e Grieks-Latijnse* *Latin* 6 hrs,* Greec *4 hrs, *Dutch* 5 hrs,
*French *5 hrs
4th year - *3e Grieks Latijnse* *Latin* 6 hrs, *Greec *4 hrs, *Dutch* 4 hrs,
*French* 4 hrs
5th year - *Poësis*: *Latin *6 hrs, *Greec* 4 hrs, *Dutch *4 hrs, *French *4
hrs, *English* 1 hr,* German* 1 hr
6th year - *Rethorica*:  *Latin *6 hrs, *Greec *4 hrs, *Dutch *4 hrs, *
French* 4 hrs, *English* 1 hr, *German *1 hr
All other subjects were thought *in Dutch* (That had been in French in
Tongeren till about 1910, and mixed, with some in French and some in Dutch,
in the period 1910-1925, dates are approximative)
Playground and street language was *Tongerlands Limburgish*. "Dialects" were
incidentally referred to in courses of Dutch, but I think we learned more
about Attic, Doric and Ionic dialect varieties of Classical Greec than of
dialect varieties of Low Franconian.
Most of us went to school with a bus connection or with the bike in the
summer. Towns were often situated at a mutual distance of about 20 kms (4
hours of walking). I lived at 9 kms from Tongeren, 15 kms from Hasselt, 6
kms from Borgloon. Borgloon had a College, but no bus connection with our
village).

Exam Quotations for Latin and Greec
*language* (including translations seen during the year): 50 percent
*vertaling*: translation of new unfamiliar text from the foreign language
into Dutch: 25 percent
*opstel*: translation from Dutch into foreign language: 25 percent
All exams were with closed books; eventually a couple of new words were
explained.
I remember we once had to translate, for exam, a Latin text with "virtus"
occuring repetively with a variation of meanings.It may have been a literary
pearl, but as new text for an exam it was pure sadism.
Most teachers of Latin and Greec were parish priests of the villages around
Tongeren, allowing them to earn some extra dimes for their teaching hours.

I learned that in later years, for attracting more public, they softened the
program:
- translations at exams only from Latin and Greec into Dutch, not inversely
- reduction of the freaky details, even up to skipping the Greec verbs on
-mi.
Below I translitterate words in Greec, since I see only squares when the
message comes back otherways.

Our Greec grammar was somehow a comparative grammar with Latin. We learned
Greec (grammar) somehow as a variation of Latin (grammar). I just would like
to illustrate how this fits (in 5 dimensions) using the:

*Conjugation of the verbs*

a - basically with *suffixes*, *no auxiliary verbs*
b - though the reflexive forms are not with suffixes, but with pronouns
c - *gender independent*
d - *no changes in the roots* (no umlauts nor consonant shifts, at least not
in written standard language),
except for a set of duplication rules of the initial consonant for the
Perfectum in Greec.
also except in Greec for contractions of vowels between root and suffix for
verbs on a-oo, e-oo and o-oo.
e - For Greec I do not include *accents*, for some aorist forms though the
distiction comes from the accents only.
We were not used to write accents, except for the spiritus asper since it
addes an "h".

1 - Forms

Latin
*activum* - bedrijvende vorm - active voice:   amo: I love
*passivum* - lijdende vorm - passive voice: amor: I am loved
(deponens verbs: passive voice with active significance:   hortor: I
encourage)
For the *reflexive forms* one uses pronouns, as (in *acc. masc*. here): me
ipsum (myself), te ipsum (yourself), eum ipsum (himself)

Greek
*activum* - bedrijvende vorm - active voice: luoo: I untie, I release, I
unlink / lusoo: I will untie
*medium -* mediale vorm - middle voice: luomai: I untie (for myself) /
lusomai: I will untie (for myself)
*passivum* - lijdende vorm - passive voice: luomai: I am untied / lutèsomai:
I will be untied
I have added the futurum since the praesens is identical for medium and
passivum.
The passivum developped from the medium; some medium forms have a passivum
significance.
*Attention*: medium does not mean* reflexive*; therefore one uses pronouns,
as (in *acc. masc.* here): em-auton (myself), se-auton (yourself), hé-auton
(himself)

2 - Number

Latin
*singular* - enkelvoud: amo: I love
*Plural -* meervoud: amamus: We love

Greek
*Singular*: lueis: you untie
*Dualis:* lueton: you two untie
*Plural:* luete: you (plural) untie
(The dualis only exist for the 2d and 3 person, nothing for a split
personality:
 it also exists for the medium and passive tenses)

3 - Person

Latin
*1th*: amo:* I* love
*2d:* amas: *You (singular)* loves
*3d:* amat: *(he/she)* loves

Greec
*1th*: luoo: I untie
*2d:* lueis: you untie
*3d:* luei: he unties

4 - Tenses - Tijden

Latin:

Imperfect tenses - Onvoltooide tijden
*Praesens*: amo: I love
*Imperfectum:* amabam: I loved
*Futurum:* amabo: I will love

Perfect tenses - Voltooide tijden
*Perfectum:* amavi: I have loved
*Plusquanperfectum*: amaveram: I had loved
*Futurum exactum*: amavero: I will have loved

Greec:

Primary tenses:
*Praesens*: luoo: I untie
*Futurum:* lusoo: I will untie
*Perfectum:*  *le*luka: I have untied (Comment: complex set of *
reduplication* rules for the initial consonant; also for initial vowels of a
few verbs, the latter called *Attical reduplication*)
*Futurum exactum* (in passive tense): *le*lusomai: I will be been untied

Secundary tenses (the "e" preceeding consonnants is called "*syllabical
augment*", with some verbs it is an "èta" though)
*Imperfectum*: *e*luon: I untied
*Aorist*: *el*usa: I have untied
*Plusquamperfetum*: *e*lelukein I had untied

The Perfectum and Aorist are translated by the same in Dutch.
For more info about the aorist I take the easy way for explaining:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aorist
I don't remember what I would have used (between Perfectum and Aorist) for
translating from Dutch into old Greec.

5 - Mood - Wijze

Latin:

Personal moods:
*indicative:*  amas: you love
*conjunctive:*  ames: you would/may love
*imperative:*  ama: love (sing.)
Comment: The imperative Presens has only a form for the 2d person, the
futurum though has both 2d and 3d person, sing. as well as plural.

Unpersonal moods :
*infinitive:* amare to love (inf. perfectum: amavisse: to have loved; the
futurum uses an *auxiliary verb*: amaturum/am esse: to will love)
*participium*: presens: amans, loving; futurum: amaturus, will be loving)
*supinum:* amatum: for loving; amatu: to be loved
*gerundium* (acc.): amandum: for loving
*gerundivum* (pass tense only): amandus: who has to be loved.
(Attention: subjective to declension, similar as adjectives; except for the
infinitive)

Greec:
*Indicative:* lueis: you untie
*Conjunctive:* luès: you would/may untie
*Optative*: luois: you wish to untie
*Imperative*: lue, luetoo, luete, luontoon (Praesens, 2d sing, 3d sing, 2d
plur, 3d plural)
      The imperative also has an Aorist.
*Infinitive:* luein
*Participium*:  luoon (etc., subjective to declension, similar as
adjectives)

I had to simplify a few things.

Regards,
Roger

•

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