LL-L "Idiomatica" 2009.01.05 (04) [E]

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L O W L A N D S - L - 05 January 2009 - Volume 04
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From: Brooks, Mark <mark.brooks at twc.state.tx.us>
Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2009.01.03 (02) [E]

Marlou wrote:  "Now what is "this" tuesday?"

That brings to mind what we do in Texas.  I never feel like I have it
right.  Now, to me I would say, "we have a meeting this Tuesday" meaning
Tuesday of this week or tomorrow if I'm speaking to someone on Monday.  But,
if I said "next Tuesday" I would mean some eight days from now.  I remember
some of my Tennessee relatives making that distinction by saying "Tuesday
week."  So, let's say that today is Monday, January 5.  To me, "this
Tuesday" would be tomorrow and "next Tuesday" would be January 13, as would
"Tuesday week."  But, I know that not everyone around here feels the same
way.  So, it seems like we continually have to clarify exactly which Tuesday
we mean.  Maybe we should just drop the "this Tuesday/next Tuesday" thing
altogether and say, "we have a meeting on [fill in the date]."

Mark Brooks

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From: heatherrendall at tiscali.co.uk <heatherrendall at tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2009.01.04 (02) [D/E]

from Heather Rendall heatherrendall at tiscali.co.uk

Marlou wrote:

A french child that can count to 100 can do multiplications and sums

Not necessarily! I have been fascinated by how French children ( and adults)
handle their complex number system and have asked  many a french speaker
what they visualise when they hear or say a number and it would appear that
as small children they learn something like  quatre-vingt-douze not as an
addition of numbers but as a single item. When one is learning one's numbers
one is often so young as to not know the value of multiplication (
quatre-vingt) or addition ( dix-huit): maybe some acquire it later but maybe
others not.

Watching peoples write numbers down is as fascinating.

In English you can begin to write immediately: as soon as you hear the
ninety of 99 we can write down a '9' and wait to hear what follows it and
write it to the right.

9...7   9..2

In German on the other hand with a 'units first' rule the writing is in the
reverse direction, you write down the unit on the right and then the tens in
front to the left : " Zwei....." 2... " ..und achtzig"   82

But try this with a French speaker: " soixante.... Nothing gets
written down. " .. trois" 63   " Soixante....treize"  73.
"Quatre-vingt.....onze" What is fascinating is that they are often not
writing anything that they hear.  4 x 20 + 11 = 91

When I have asked whether or not they are doing the sum in their heads, they
usually say No the figures spring to  mind once the 'whole' number is heard.

re whether it makes them cleverer at maths to have such a system, well in
English we grow up knowing 3 different systems.

1) Good old hundreds tens and units

2) A good smattering of biblical stories and history is enough for us to be
aware of and able to work out the same (Celtic) system that French partially
uses:

Man's life is three score years and ten

Four score and (???) years ago......

3) We even learn the German system too with our nursery rhymes

Sing a song of sixpence

Pocketful of rye

FOUR AND TWENTY blackbirds

Baked in a pie ......

I don't think English children are any better at maths for having a working
knowledge of different systems. Though I would agree that they were sharper
at mental arithmetic when they had to use £ s d - working in bases of 12 and
20 !

Heather

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From: Roger Hondshoven <rhondshoven at yahoo.com>
Subject: LLL-L "Idiomatica" 2009.01.03 (01) [D/E]

Beste Luc, Diederik & All:

Subject: LL-L "Etymology"

Luc: you said:

But I'm anticipating a little...given the approximately 2 000 M people on
this world who are speaking either English or German as a first or second
language (who both use "next" / "nächste" in this case), my "noste" (=
naaste, superlative of na(ar) - nader - naast) won't be entirely out of tune
by the time Dutch gets its ass whooped.

I might add for East-Brabant (Getelands): nötst (in Tiens: natst), meaning
'next', e.g. 't nötste joër 'next year'

Kind greetings

Roger Hondshoven

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From: Roger Hondshoven <rhondshoven at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2009.01.04 (02) [D/E]

Luc Hellings wrote:

On a same note, roughly speaking, half of the people here say "half vier"
when the time is 15:30, and the other say "drie en half"...*s*

In the part of Belgium I live in (East-Brabant), we only say "half vier". I
wonder if "drie en half" is used in any Brabants dialect, unless perhaps in
the region of Brussels. This construction was clearly borrowed from French.

Kind regards,

Roger Hondshoven
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