LL-L "Language history" 2009.07.26 (01) [EN]

Sun Jul 26 17:32:47 UTC 2009

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L O W L A N D S - L - 26 July 2009 - Volume 01
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From: Roger Thijs, Euro-Support, Inc. <roger.thijs at euro-support.be>
Subject: LL-L "Language history" 2009.07.25 (03) [EN-NL]

> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Language history
> ... In Limburgish, length preservation and reallocation does not play a
role but pitch does, and it is my preliminary postulation that tones of two
consecutive syllables develope(d) into a *contour tone when the second
syllable is deleted*
> ... What I am assuming here is that, when another syllable follows, in the
first syllable the Limburgish "plain" dipping countour tone (sjleiptoen) is
simplified to become a high tone, its originally first component.
> ... This type of creating a single-syllable falling tone *from a
two-syllable sequence of high+low* is very common for instance among African
languages where contraction of low+high creates a rising tone, contraction
of high+low+high creates a dipping town, and contraction of low+high+low
creates a rising and falling tone

Ron,
Thanks for investigaring.
I'm not convinced though whether it explains things.

1. Yes *plurals *often follow a repetitive pattern with sleeptoon in
singular and stoottoon in plural.
But what about *homonyms*?
Cf. the list p. 15-16 in Staelens, DiksjenÃ¨Ã¨r van 't (H)essels, derde
verbeterde druk, 1989, Hasselt, De Langeman, 383 + xl pp.
http://www.euro-support.be/tmp/cajot/st_15.jpg
http://www.euro-support.be/tmp/cajot/st_16.jpg
And what about *plurals with -er*? (see my own list at the bottom)
There is no second syllable deleted, or was the *old German plural*  on *
-eren?*
It is possible though a sound pattern "singular v/ plural" may have been *
extrapolated* to cases different from its morphological origin?

2.What about the "loss of" or "never has been" bitonality in Zichen.
Cajot thinks the *extended vowel system* compensated the* loss* of tonality.
Or did old-(low)-German have *3 times as many vowels* als our modern
languages?
I suppose Cajot is capable of identifying and distinguishing vowel
differences with his cv;
http://www.toponymie-dialectologie.be/cv-cajot.html
He also wrote this little guide for amateur-*composers of dictionaries* for
their parish:
http://www.dbnl.org/tekst/cajo001hoem01_01/cajo001hoem01_01_0002.htm
Note 1 in that publication gives some comments on Zichen: *"Het dialect van
Zichen-Zussen-Bolder heeft een vijftrappig systeem van lange en korte
achter- en geronde resp. ongeronde voorklinkers."*
The polytonal issues are dealt with in par 3.4, but *tones are rarely marked
in writing*. I think in most cases tonal difference is *combined* with other
things, as e.g. umlaut, so the number of words needing tone marking
for *semantic
distinction* is low.

3. On URL http://www.vanoostendorp.nl/pdf/cc_8_boekbespreking.pdf one finds
a review of the proceedings of the congress in Leiden.
Cajots story is summarized p 304-304.
Interesting p 306 are the statements in JÃ¶rg Peters "*The Cologne word
accent revisted*"
I translate "*tone is primary, and all other differences are just enhancing
the tonal difference*"
BTW if one starts from gammatical concepts, huw to explain the *tonal
reversal called "rule B"* for some areas.
cf. p 306 referring to Schmidt & KÃ¼nzel.
Interesting is also that Franconia (sic) and Scandinavia are dealt with on a
same level.
Question: Has there ever been a old-Germanic tonal continuum?
Or are both occurencies mutually independent?

One of the speakers, Gussenhoven, published a book about Phonology.
The sound files are on url: http://www.let.ru.nl/PTI/
For Limburgish-Franconian -> chapter 12
I think these are not the best illustrations though. In other areas the
difference is more pronounced.
His conclusion (in an other publication) about Limburgish:
http://www.zas.gwz-berlin.de/events/tie/abstracts/Gussenhoven.pdf

4. Below some more examples from my own Lonerlands from Vliermaal.
The *first word on the line has sleeptoon (falling tone)* the *second
stoottoon (pushing tone)
*Vowels are written *as in Dutch*.

Plurals

*no umlaut nor suffix (homonyms, except for tonality)*
pjaad      pjaad       horse     horses
erm        erm         arm       armen

*+ umlaut no suffix*
bal         bel          ball (football)    dancing event
hoÃ«s      hais        house      houses
moÃ«s     mais       mouse     mice
boom     buim       tree         trees
stoel      steuil      chair       chairs
hoek      huk        corner     corners
boek      buk        book       books
teen       tein        toe         toes

*suffix +e (where Dutch has +en)
*kjoeÃ«s     kjoeÃ«ze   cherry     cherries
deur        deure      door        doors

*suffix +er  (where Dutch has +er+en in the first 2 cases, +en in the other
3)*
keind    kÃ©nger      child    childern
ee        eer            egg     eggs
gloÃ«s   gloÃ«ser      glass   glasses
veld     velder         field     fields
mÃ¨s     mÃ¨sser     knife     knifes

*No plurals, but homonyms*
bal         bal          (soccer)ball     dancing event
kal         kal          twaddle          wedge
(more difficult to find,
 what are homonyms in neighbouring municipalities
 eventually have a differentiating vowel in Vliermaal)
bal (soccer) becomes *bel* in plural
bal (dancing event) becomes *bals* in plural.
kal (twaddle) has no plural to my feeling
kal (wedge) can have both *kals* as *kalle* to my feeling (cf. French
"cale")
My direct inspiration is short and may lead to wrong conclusiuons,
but Staelens has a longer list of homonyms for Hasselts (see above).

Regards,
Roger
PS. Our scarlet server has been out for a full day

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language history

Thanks, Roger.

Well, *nich so gau mit dey jungen peyrd'!*, as we say in Low Saxon.

First of all, as far as I am concerned the issue of umlauting is not
relevant to that of tone here.

It looks to me rather like a case of "feature spread" where falling tone
assignment (as described) has been extended to other plural forms by
analogy.

Outside of plural forms, ... just speculating here ...

Is *bal* 'ball (=dance)' masculine?

*Kal* 'wedge' must be related to German *Keil* and Dutch *keil*, may well be
a contraction of **kail*.

Anyway, it's not impossible that tone distinction came to be extended even
further to distinguish words that otherwise are homophonous.

I wonder what others think.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
Seattle, USA

•

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