LL-L "Travels" 2009.03.29 (01) [E]

[Lowlands-L List]

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L O W L A N D S - L - 29 March 2009 - Volume 01
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From: Roger Thijs, Euro-Support, Inc. <roger.thijs at euro-support.be>
Subject: LL-L Travels

1 - Hamburg

2 - Brussels

3 - San Francisco



1 - Hamburg



This is for giving some feed-back.



a - Flight *(including a comparison)*



There are 7 daily regular flights from Brussels to Hamburg in the week, 3
serviced by *SN Brussels Airlines*, and 4 serviced by *Lufthansa.*



I had the most convenient time and best rate with *LH*:

Ticket price build-up LH (return flight):

Ticket:                                             * 90* euro (late
booking)

Airport Taxes:                                  93.39 euro

Ticket handling charge:                     10 euro

Penalty for payment with credit card:    0 euro



*The week before I had a flight from Schiphol to Birminghan with BMI-Baby,*

*I choose Schiphol since the (last minute) flights from Brussels
were extremely expensive.*

*Ticket price build-up BMI (return flight):*

*Ticket:                                              **193.62** euro (late
booking)*

*Airport Taxes:                                  89.11 euro*

*Ticket handling charge:                         0 euro*

*Penalty for payment with credit card:    12 euro*

*Rail connection Mechelen-Schiphol:    62.40 euro*



*BMI-Baby offers only food and drinks for purchase*

LH (coach class) offers *a sandwich (a little bread) with cheese, wurst or
chicken, a Balisto stick, and beverages (including beer and wine) for free.*



*BMI-Baby visibly had no business class.*

LH had some rows reserved with a little curtain, but no one was sitting
there.



The LH flight was done by Citylink with a CRJ200 with *50 seats.*

We were with *9 passengers* on the flight to Hamburg,

and with *23* back.

Sine LH recently toke a majority share in SN Brussels airlines, the 2
schedules will probably merge, and unfortunately the price-competition on
that line will stop.

*The BMI flights from Schiphol were as good as fully booked.*



*The BMI flights were all on time.*

The LH flight to HAM was 20 minutes late for departure, the return flight
was on time.

In Brussels, our gate was at a very last minute switched with the one for
Berlin. We were (all 9 passengers) discretely informed that the lavatories
were out of service on our plane and we had to take our precautions. So we
clearly were victim of priotity servicing for the confort on the Berlin
flight. So *Hamburg** had to give ground to Berlin.*



In Hamburg we did not dock at a gate. There were quite some problems with
getting a bus. After a bit more than 15 minutes they could get that
arranged. We were cooled a lot since the door was open all time and it was
snowing. Since a blow of cold air has some effect on the bladder we were
quite handicapped.



b - Rail (S-Bahn to down town)



I planned to buy a *Hamburg** card* (day ticket for all downtown connections
during a whole day) for each of the two days. But the counter at the airport
was closed. The automates only sell tickets dated from the current day on.

So I planned to purchase a 3 day Hamburg card, since it is only slightly
more expensive than just 2 single day cards.

On the automate I only found a single trip ticket in the menu.

I got some help from someone. For the *Hamburg** card* one has to choose "*
Sonstige*" on the bottom of the second column of the main menu, and in the
next menu one can find a line with Hamburg Card.

I could not pay with my credit card, since the machine only accepts *EC
cards* and cash money.

In Belgium we do not use EC for debit cards, but *Maestro*.

So I filled the machine with cash banknotes and I finally got 2 tickets: a
3-day Hamburg card *AND *a one trip ticket. The system had memorised my
first enquiry and added it to my final order.



I must add that, later on the day, I got my stupidity forgiven by a gentle
officer at the HVV service desk at the Hauptbahnhof (Central Station). The
gentleman bought back the single trip (airport to downton) ticket.



The second day on the way back I had forgotten to count the position of the
wagon. The first 3 wagons were splitted of in *Ohlsdorf*, and were directed
to the airport. I was in the second part of the train for *Poppenbüttel*. I
realized it on time for getting out in Ohlsdorf, but I had to wait for the
first 3 wagons of the next train.



The S-Bahn has its own station parallel with the Bundesbahn in the
Hauptbahnhof, at a lower level. The S-Bahn connection to the airport (S1)
though does not stop in the proper S-Bahn-station but at one of the
DB-tracks with lower numbers in the main station.



The S1 can be compared with the Picadilly line in London, and not with the
Heathrow Express. It stops at all stations and this takes quite some time.



c - Downtown communications.



Main ways of public communcations are U-Bahn (rail), S-Bahn (also rail) and
busses.



Some rail stations allow to interchange, but there may be quite some
underground distances to run for a connection as well as stairs to do.

Intuitively I thought the *U-*Bahn would be merely *underground*, but at my
hotel (Sofitel at Alter Wall) the U3 had a stop on a kind of bridge one
level above ground in front of the hotel (Rödingsmarkt) while the S-Bahn (S1
and S3) is underground at the backside of the hotel (Stadthausbrücke)



d - Bookshopping



It were not the best days for walking downtown. The first day it was
snowing; Although the snow melted on the ground, strong winds gave it a
blizzard feeling. The second day there was some light rain, almost all day.



On Wednesday it did the Eastern part of downtown, *the streets between the
Rathaus and the Hauptbahnhof* (see list of bookshops in an earlier message
about resources).

The second day I toke the *Rothenbaumchaussee* from North to South, starting
at the Hallerstraße. Except for an kind of an antroposophic junk bookshop, I
didn't find much to look for. I didn't check on the sidestreets towards the
university area because they didn't look commercial, it was raining, and the
university buidings are really ugly (it's not Oxridge).



I found a couple of books in the bookshop at the *Dammtor railway station*,
as well as some publicity for the bookshops of "Buchhandlung Laatzen".  I
was intrigued in that prospectus by this item:

Charles De Coster, Ulenspiegel, 11 CDs etc. (Höredition NDR Kultur).

So I checked in the *Laatzen bookshop* in the Esplanade street:

It is all read in Hochdeutsch not in Platt!!!!!!!! O Ulenspiegel, what did
they do to you?

Eulensiegel has several traditions. One playing around *Kneitlingen-Mölln*,
another playing around *Damme-Bruges.*

At a time the Dutch-Flemish language was in decay in Belgium, Charles de
Coster rewrote the Belgian version in French in 1867, and this version
gained popularity and has been translated into several languages.

My reflexion: why did the NDR not record the original version? and why not
in Platt??

I didn't buy the De Coster CD-junk.



I generally found some books on Platt in the *regional shelves* (the
"Hamburg" booth) of the bookshops. I did *not* find anything on Platt in the
*language bookshelves*. So the language is dealt with as something of local
curiosity, not as something one has to study and learn. I didn't find
anything on linguistics, nor on Alt- or Mittelniederdeutsch.

I didn"t see Kay since I had business on the evening he proposed, but, after
facts, I should have phoned him for getting some tips for more scientifical
bookshops.



I did also some antiquarian bookshops in the Dammtor-Gänsemarkt area. To my
big surprise I did not even find books in or about Alt-Hochdeutsch or
Mittel-Hochdeutsch. It is easier to find a Nibelungen or works of Von der
Vogelweide in Belgium than in Germany.

It may have to do with education. In Belgium we read Blancefloer, Marieke
van Niemeghen etc in middle school, as well as Villon etc. in French.
Apparently in Germany main focus in language education is on the modern
version of the language only.



PS. The De Coster I have at home:

- Charles De Coster, *La légende et les aventures héroiques joyeuses et
glorieuses d'Ulenspiegel et de Lamme Goedzak au pays des Flandres et
ailleurs* [1867],

édition définitive établie et présentée par Joseph Hanse,

deuxième édition revue avec de nouvelles notes et variantes,

Bruxelles, La Renaissance du Livre, 1979, no ISBN, xxxi + 493 pp. (in
French)

De Coster replaced the story in the context of the fight for freedom in the
Netherlands in the 16th century, add to that a consistent thread in the
plot, good (French) writing skill and this may explain the popularity of
that edition.



An historical approach (starting with the *1510-1511* manuscript by Bote can
be found in:

Jozef Janssens (and many others), *Uilenspiegel, De wereld op zijn kop*,

1999, Leuven, Davidsfonds, ISBN 90-6306-394-6, 272 pp. (in Dutch)

The first tradition with *Damme* as place of events can apparently traced
back to *1628* with the publication of "Historie van Thijl Ulenspiegel". It
is a mofified (falsified) version printed in Antwerp of an original
published in Amsterdan in 1623 by Broer Jansz.



The 2 editions I have at home in Dutch all *play in Northern Germany*:



- Ulenspiegel, Antwerpen *1580*, facsimile verzorgd en van een inleiding
voorzien door Dr. Loek Geeraerds, 1987, Anrwerpen, Berghmans uitgevers, ISBN
90-70959-11-9, 43 pp + 62 pp facsimile (not numbered) from an original from
the Niedersächsische D-Staats- und Universitätsbibliothek, Göttingen. The
facsimile is set in a gothic type of characters.

(The oldest print in Dutch was apparently made by Michiel Hillen van
Hoochstraten, not dated, but to be positioned *between 1518 and 1545*)



- Wonderbaarlijke en zeldzame Historie van Thyl Ulenspiegel, 1996, Leuven,
Davidsfonds, ISBN 90-6306-349-0, 128 pp.It is a version in modernised
orthography of the publication by J.H. De Lange in Deventer *around 1790*.

I think one takes the cream from the cake when modernizing orthography.



e - food



I followed Ron's advice for the *Wischer *restaurant in the Spitaler Str. It
is a fish resaurant.

I had

a *Fishsuppe *for 4.20 euro

*Fishfrikadellen* for 8.20 euro

0.2l Riesling wine for 3.90 euro

The soup ware tasty and stuffed with a variety of seefood, very priceworthy,

I got 2 very large frikadellen with fish and filler material (bread?) mixed.
These balls clearly had absorbed quite some baking fat.

The waiters do not accept credit cards. This is quite common in Northern
Germany. Restaurants are reluctant to accept the fee credit card companies
charge.



The second day I didn't take breakfast at the hotel (since they charge 25
euro for their buffet formula).

I had two little breads with cheese, ham and salad in a coffeshop close to
the intersection of the Hallerstraße and the Rothenbaumchaussee.

I don't remember what litlle bread was what, I got on my ticket:

*Vinschg. Flad.* belegt for 3.20 euro

*Fitticus Fladen* belegt 2 euro

Kaffee Becher 1.56 euro

(In that shop they also had Danish sandwiches: a flat piece of bread topped
in an artistic way with salad, fish or other junk.).

A litlle bread filled with salad, and eventually cheese and/or ham is often
called "*smos*" in Belgium and "*broodje gezond*" in the Netherlands. "*
Sandwich*" can have a variety of meanings over here, but is often used for
just a plain soft little bread, while a mostly round "*pistolet*" is very
crispy, but tends to become stone-hard after a day.



Other meals I had more conveniently in the Hauptbahnhof food area, once
Chinese and once Greek.

The first evening, after a meeting I attended, I didn't stay very long in
the Parlament below the Rathaus. It is very noisy and with that background
noise it is difficult to understand people at one's table (considering my
age)



f - toponomy



Looking on the map (Hamburg ADAC CityAtlas 1:15.000 216 pp.:



I find quite some places with "*bek*" not "Bach": Barmbek, Wandsbek, Reinbek
...

But vitually none with "dorp": it is all "*Dorf"* or "-*torf*": Ohlsdorf,
Vahrendorf, Wulmstorf, Daerstorf ...

Some elements have a high freqiuency, but I'm not aware of an equivalent in
Dutch:

- *büttel:* Poppenbüttel, Eimsbüttel, Hoisbüttel

- *hude*: Buxtehude, Winterhude, Harvesterhude (has this anything to do with
Heide?)

- *werder*: Billwerder, Finkenwerder, Altenwerder (is this equivalent to
-weiler in the Rhineland? to -wilder in Belgian Limburg, cf. Waltwilder?)



Is there a difference between Stadthaus (cf. *Stadthausbrücke*)  and
Rathaus?



In Dutch Belgium one has "*stadhuis*" in towns and "*gemeentehuis*" in
smaller municipalities.

In France one has "*mairie*" everywhere, except for Paris where one
has a "*hotel
de ville*"

In French Belgium one finds "*maison communale*", "*hotel communal*"
and "*hotel
de ville*".

In German Belgium "*Rathaus*" (e.g. Eupen) and "*Gemeindehaus*" (e.g.
Kelmis)



2 - Brussels



On *April 4* there will be some fundamental changes at the Brussel
Underground. The lines have been rearranged and renumbered, the loop is now
closed between Delacroix and Weststation.

Adventage for travelers is, I think, that vistors arriving in the South
Station (Eurostar and others) will have a direct line to the Heysel
Exhibition (and football) area.

More info on: http://www.denieuwemetro.be/

and on: http://www.mivb.be/index.htm?guest_user=guest_nl



3 -San Francisco



I'm in SF on 2.3 and 4 April and staying in the Hyatt at *Stockton Street*.

I will arrive at SF airport on April 1 at 10 pm.

Can somebody advice whether it is feasable to take the *Bart *to a stop
nearby at that hour, or should I rather take a shuttle or a taxi?

Thanks for all advice.



Regards,

Roger



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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Travels



Thanks for the interesting, detailed report, dear Roger.

The “*little bread*” you ate, a type of (hopefully) crusty, oval shaped
bread roll, is the typical *Rundstück* (> Danish *rundstykke*). With
increasing Germanization and national uniformity, it is more and more
referred to as *Brötchen* even locally.

*Place names:*

   - Your hunch about *-dorf* and *-torf* was correct. Those are Germanized
   names, and the Low Saxon is *-dörp* from *Dörp* ‘village’ = English
   “thorp”. The versions with *-t-* are assimilated to preceding voiceless
   consonants.
   - *Büttel* used to denote a settlement, from Indo-European **bhu-* ‘to
   build’ > Old Saxon *bodal* ‘homestead’, ‘estate’
   - *Hude* -- Low Saxon now *Huud’* -- was a wharf.
   - *Werder* -- Low Saxon *Warder* -- is a river island.

As for *San Francisco*, I’m familiar with the situation and can give you my
bit on it.

*Bart (Bay Area Rapid Transit)* rides are fairly expensive, and in my
opinion it is not worth by such a ticket to a nearby station. You might as
well take a taxi to avoid the hassle of ticket machines etc., though others
may not agree with me. Also, you need to check out if there's a MUNI
connection (a cross between underground and streetcar).

The *Grand Hyatt* is located at 345 Stockton Street, pretty much at the
southern end of the street, a fair way from Market Street in the heart of
downtown. Much depends on where you want to go from there.

If you want to take the Bart from the *airport to downtown* I would
encourage you to do so since it’s cheaper than taxi and shuttle for that
distance, and there are no transfers to other lines. The fair is calculated
by number of stops.

Bart connections to both the airports of San Francisco and Oakland were
established fairly recently, and that makes things easy. It’s worth taking
the Bart for long distances.

Happy travels, Roger!

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
Seattle, USA

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