LL-L "Lexicon" 2009.11.11 (02) [EN]

Wed Nov 11 16:45:21 UTC 2009

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L O W L A N D S - L - 11 November 2009- Volume 02
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From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2009.11.10 (01) [EN]

An interesting case of the relative status of Romance or Classical words
versus Germanic has arisen recently here in Britain.

Jaqui Janes, mother of British soldier Jamie Janes who was killed in
Afghanistan made the news after she complained about Prime Minister Gordon
Brown's "scrawled" hand-written letter which she said mis-spelled his name.
Brown rang Ms. Janes, who later commented that "although he must have said
sorry 20 times, he never once offered an apology"....

She clearly thinks that "Offering an Apology" has some sort of status or
solemnity that "saying sorry" clearly lacks.

Paul

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
 Subject: Lexicon

Thanks for sharing that, Paul.

Wow! That's one for the books!

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
Seattle, USA

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From: Hellinckx Luc <luc.hellinckx at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon"

Beste Ron,

You wrote:

B.t.w. Ron you say 'afterfollower' sounds a bit 'silly' - I think again
that's part of conditioning: you'd say the same about 'afterbirth' and
'aftermath' if they hadn't lasted as established words. You ask why use
'after' - if one said 'who's the king's follower?' it would have an
obviously different meaning, so the 'after' is there to show the
distinction. Surely you'd agree that 'oathbreach' and 'mouthroof' are
clearer than 'perjury' and 'palate' and could get back into English very
easily?

I do understand, and I do appreciate your points and intentions.

I am not quite sure, though, if you and Luc, got my point that, semantically
speaking, "afterfollower" is what in German is called *doppelt gemoppelt* in
that "to follow" already implies "after."

Sure did. Speaking of tautologies, I found a few other examples:

   - to reiterate (E): if the verb is merely used to mean "to repeat"
   (say/do something a second time), the initial "re" is redundant because "to
   iterate" already implies that something is being done repeatedly.
   - Nachbar (G), neighbo(u)r (E) < nÄ“ahgebÅ«r (O.E.), where -gebÅ«r- means
   "one who is living in the hood, fellow dweller"...no need then to add
   'n(e)igh'  ~ NÃ¤he. The formation of "Bauer" (G) has been influenced by this
   -gebÅ«r-, but also by the verb "bauen", originally "to cultivate, to dwell" >
   names for farmers: Baumann, Bouwman, Geboers...and also "The Bowery" in NY
   (< bouwerij (D): homestead) and "bower" (E): gazebo. In other parts of the
   LL, farmers were often called "Hausmann" or "Mayor" (Mayer, Maier, Mayr, De
   Meyer, De Mayer, ***meier...) Btw, English  used "boor" first only for
   foreign agricultural laborers, native farmers were "yeomen".
   - Nachfolge (G): succession...yes, "to follow" again ;=)...what else but
   "danach"?

Kind greetings,

Luc Hellinckx, Halle, Belgium

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From: Hellinckx Luc <luc.hellinckx at gmail.com>
 Subject: LL-L "History"

Beste Sandy,

You wrote:

It seems to me that Molee is choosing his examples, but doesn't make a
good job of it even so. Words like "ominous", "ancestor", "descendant",
"ancestral" and so on aren't considered difficult words in English, but
they are difficult to think of reasonable saxonised equivalents for.
There are an awful lot of new terms to think up and teach, and they're
not going to be nearly as transparent as he pretends.

Catch your drift (or your tenor? ;=))...your remarks make sense.

Maybe "ominous", "ancestor", "descendant" and "ancestral" are not that hard
to saxonise though. In Dutch:

ominous = onheilspellend, dreigend
ancestor = voorouder, stamvader
descendant = nakomeling, afstammeling
ancestral = voorouderlijk

Etymologically, these words would respectively become:

un-health-spelling, threatening
fore-elder, stem-father (ok, the last one is sexist)
next-comer, off-stem-ling
fore-elder-ly

Aren't they somewhat transparent? I guess it's more or less like reading
your own dialect in a foreign spelling...weird at first, takes a while to
get used to.

Re "ancestors": very good example to show that a concept can often be viewed
in more than one way...synonymous with "progenitors". "Ancestors" are
literally "fore-goers", the ones who were there before you (referring to our
point of view)..."progenitors" are "forth-bringers" (ancestors' point of
view is central).

David suggested to use Stephen Fry for promotion. Great...but...what about
the Queen? I don't know if she addresses the nation each year with a New
Year's speech (our King does), but it would be a tremendous way to introduce
a newly "revamped" and saxonised (sanitised *s*...or satanised?) language.
Or would the Queen's language no longer trigger any effect in the UK?
Surely, a couple of words would be enough (homeopathic effect)...there's no
need for purification or witch-hunting. Challenge: Saxonise her New Year's
speech in such a way that it actually becomes a lot shorter, but with the
same information. I think this will add weight to her words.

Kind greetings,

Luc Hellinckx, (Wal)halla, Belgium

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