LL-L "Etymology" 2010.08.11 (03) [DE-EN-NDS]

Thu Aug 12 00:55:22 UTC 2010

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*L O W L A N D S - L - 11 August 2010 - Volume 03
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From: Marcus Buck <list at marcusbuck.org>

Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2010.08.11 (01) [EN-NL]

From: Jonny <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>

Interesting! In our Low Saxon we have "Wiemen" [veemen] in the meaning of a
woodpile, too. An idiom, often used, is "Ick gao' nu' opp'n Wiemen!",
meaning "I'm going to sleep now!". It originates from chicken sleeping on
woodpiles.

Are you sure that it's "wood pile" (Holzstapel)? I only know the word as
"wood pole" (Holzstange). It's the roosting pole of the chickens and it's
also the pole on which sausages are hung above the fireplace. I never came
across any other meaning of the word than these two.

Marcus Buck

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From: Marcus Buck <list at marcusbuck.org>

Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2010.08.11 (01) [EN-NL]

From: Jonny <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>

Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2010.08.10 (07) [EN-NL]

Beste Roger,

you wrote, answering to Heathers question about *'vine'* resp. *'vinestall'*
:

>> The Dutch "vim" may be related. It can mean both a quantity of wood as
also a woodpile.

Interesting! In our Low Saxon we have "Wiemen" [veemen] in the meaning of a
woodpile, too. An idiom, often used, is "Ick gao' nu' opp'n Wiemen!",
meaning "I'm going to sleep now!". It originates from chicken sleeping on
woodpiles.

"vim" is etymologically related to Low Saxon "Fimm(e)/Fîm(e)" with the same
meaning ('stack of wood', 'stack of hay', 'stack of grain', but usually
'stack of wood'). Etymologically it cannot be related to 'Wiem(en)'.
According to Grimms' dictionary (
<http://germazope.uni-trier.de/Projects/WBB/woerterbuecher/dwb/wbgui?lemmode=lemmasearch&lemid=GW19406><http://germazope.uni-trier.de/Projects/WBB/woerterbuecher/dwb/wbgui?lemmode=lemmasearch&lemid=GW19406>)
'Wiem(en)' is a Romance loan related to Latin 'vimen' meaning "pliant twig,
flexible shoot". But this doesn't really convince me. According to data I
collected for my Plattmakers dictionary (
<http://www.plattmakers.de/index.php?show=2131><http://www.plattmakers.de/index.php?show=2131>)
the word is at least known from Groningen and the Veluwe in the west to
Mecklenburg in the east and from Schleswig in the north to Waldeck in the
south. That means it's common Low Saxon. I didn't find any references that
the word is known in High German or Dutch.

If the word is indeed known in Groningen and the Veluwe but not in other
dialects of the Netherlands and this observation is not based on my limited
research skills in regard to Dutch sources (which is quite possible) than
this is almost certain proof that the word is an old Saxon word and no
Middle Low German loan as Grimms suggest.

The fact that 'vine' starts with 'v' suggests that the word is a loan (on a
quick check of my English etymological dictionary I didn't find any word
starting with 'v' that was of Germanic origin) but on the other hand we are
dealing with an obscure dialectal word so the spelling could be an arbitrary
choice of the author. Searching for "wine stall" didn't yield any meaningful
results (except for references to boothes selling alcohol).

But are you aware that there is a Vines Lane in Droitwich, a Vines Park and
a locality called Vines Mews?
(<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mews><http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mews>)
And 20 km away in Evesham there is a Vine Mews and a Vine Street! Certainly
worth to embrace in further research.

Marcus Buck

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From: Hannelore Hinz  <HanneHinz at t-online.de>

Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2010.08.11 (01) [EN-NL]

Hallo Heather, Roger, Jonny und Lowlanders,

ich schlug nach bei:

KRAMERS DUITS WOORDENBOEK unter:

vim v, -men Fimme w, Feim(en) m, Haufen m.

Wiem m -(e)s, -e, Wieme w ~, -n; Wiemen m -s, ~  dwarshout voor 't ophangen
v. rookvlees of worst; stok (in 't kippenhok).

Wossidlo/Teuchert: Wimen, wim  (vim, öft. dissimiliert zu vibm, vim) m. ein
Holzgestell. Im alten, noch schornsteinlosen Bauernhaus und Katen die am
letzten Teil der Diele über dem Herd im kleinen Abstand unter der Lehmdecke
an den Balken in

Firstrichtung zu zwei oder mehreren Reihen, etwa 1/2 m von einander
getrennt, fest angebrachten stärkeren Hölzer oder Balken, auf welche dann
quer zu ihnen zwischen jeweils 2 Reihen die Stangen (Rökerstang', Spät,
Spitt) mit den daran hängenden zum Räuchern bestimmten Würsten, Schinken und
Speckseiten gelegt wurden.

Im Hühnerstall saßen die Hühner auf einer  Hauhnerwipenstang'. Wir sagten
Häuhnerwiem' oder nur Wiem'. Also, hier Wiemen : Sitzstange für Hühner.

Ick gah nu tau Wiemen : ich gehe zu Bett (is all lat, is Nachttied).

Un dat mak ick nu wohrhaftig.

Hanne

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