LL-L "Etymology" 2010.08.27 (04) [DE-EN]

Fri Aug 27 20:40:52 UTC 2010

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*L O W L A N D S - L - 27 August 2010 - Volume 04
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From: Marcus Buck <list at marcusbuck.org>

Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2010.08.27 (01) [DE-EN]

From: M.-L. Lessing <marless at gmx.de>

 a Platt friend just asked me this:

*Hün un Perdün* heißt wohl: "alles Mögliche, dies und das" - aber vielleicht
auch: "Krethi und Plethi, Hinz und Kunz"? Ich vermute, der Ursprung ist
französisch, aus der Besatzungszeit. Weißt Du etwas darüber?

I have learned "Hühn un Perdühn" to mean "Krethi un Plethi", but as to the
origin I have no idea, has anybody else? Can it have anything to do with
chicken ("Hühn")?

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>

Indeed, Low Saxon *Hüün un Perdüün* (“properly” spelled) means something
like English “the whole caboodle” or “kit and caboodle,” and, as I tend to
use it quite often, it can also mean “everybody and their uncle’ or “Tom,
Dick and Harry.”

I too used to suspect it came from French loanwords or was another example
of mock French that Low Saxon liked to create (e.g. *Fisematenten*, *
Schisslaweng*). Apparently, it is still possible that there is a French
connection. But it looks as though Low Saxon got *Hüün un Perdüün* from
(Middle?) Dutch sailors’ language:

*Hüün* <* hune* (> *huun?)* ‘crow’s nest’ (Mastkorb)

*Perdüün* < *perduun* ‘guy rope’, ‘mooring rope’ (Haltetau)

I think Ron is right. In the "Korrespondenzblatt des Vereins für
niederdeutsche Sprachforschung" (this "correspondency gazette" is basically
the 19th century precursor of mailing lists ;-) ) volumes XVIII, XIX, XXI
(1896-1900) there were some contributions about the phrase. The plausible
conclusion of Fr. Bachmann, v. XXI, p. 52, was that the phrase indeed has
the origin Ron mentioned. His opinion is based on the works of John
Brinckman, who in his "Kasper-Ohm" wrote: "Un denn - sär ik - wad de Slacht
bi Abukir voer Eicha upführt un dat frensche Admiralschip mit Kummoduhre
Brüheisen voer Eicha sien sichtlichen Oogen mit Himp un Hamp un Hühn un
Pardühn up de Ballaststähr in de Luft sprengt". ("And then - I said - the
battle of Abukir will be performed in front of Eicha and at the ballast quay
the French admiral's ship with Commodore Brüheisen aboard will be blown up
in the air with "Himp un Hamp un Hühn un Pardühn" [in it's entirety] right
before Eicha's eyes") Bachmann quotes two more occurences in Brinckman's
book, both related to ships. He concludes that it is a metaphor from the
language of seamans meaning "the whole ship", which has developed a wider
scope meaning "the entirety of something" in general language. All three
occurences in Brinckman's book describe losses of ships, so it seems
plausible that the phrase refers to sinking ships. Mooring ropes and the
crow's nest will be the last parts that will be visible when a ship sinks
and thus "mit Hüün un Perdüün" would mean a total loss of the ship.

By the way, I don't think that "Fisematenten" and "Schisslaweng" are "mock
French". They are more likely just so far away from their original meaning
that the French source cannot be decided. There was a period called
"alamodic age" in German history when French culture had a strong impact on
German culture (especially the culture at the courts of German princes
[Fürsten]). The Low Saxon writer Johann Lauremberg wrote his book "Veer
Schertzgedichte" about this period and critized it. At the courts many
people preferred to speak French in this period and many city citizens used
French phrases in their daily language. Small people had no idea about the
original meaning of these phrases, but on occasion they tried to copy them.
Because these people had absolutely no idea about the original meaning they
could evolve and take on meanings that were very far apart from the meaning
of the French source.

Marcus Buck

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