LL-L "Etymology" 2010.02.18 (04) [EN]

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L O W L A N D S - L - 18 February 2010 - Volume 04
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From: Diederik Masure <didimasure at hotmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2010.02.18 (03) [EN]



Ron wrote:

Apparently there is not connection between this and "same", *samen*, etc.
(in the sense of 'together', 'equal', etc.)

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
Seattle, USA


RE:
On what ground/source would you say they aren't related? At least according
to the online OED they are. I know they aren't always 100% correct in my
experience but I don't see a reason why they'd be wrong here.

Oh and "some" > sommige "some" in Dutch gets a -t- in most(?) Southern
dialects, Antw. "soemmigte", just like "mennigte" (many, Dutch 'menige'),
ennigte/iënigte? ('some', Dutch 'enige'). These forms are really oldfashoned
dialect now tho (at least in Antwerp and area, now replaced by "soemmige"
loaned from Dutch with the regular om > oem adaptation).

 *same* <http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=same> *[image: Look up
same at Dictionary.com]* <http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=same>

perhaps abstracted from O.E. *swa same* "the same as," but more likely from
O.N. *same, samr* "same," both from P.Gmc. **samon*(cf. O.S., O.H.G., Goth.
*sama;* O.H.G. *samant,* Ger. *samt* "together, with," Goth.
*samana*"together," Du.
*zamelen* "to collect," Ger.*zusammen* "together"), from PIE
**samos*"same," from base
**sem-* "one, together" (cf. Skt. *samah* "even, level, similar, identical;"
Avestan *hama* "similar, the same;" Gk. *hama* "together with, at the same
time," *homos* "one and the same," *homios* "like, resembling,"
*homalos*"even;" L.
*similis* "like;" O.Ir. *samail* "likeness;" O.C.S. *samu* "himself"). O.E.
had lost the pure form of the word; the modern word replaced synonymous *ilk
* <http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=ilk> (q.v.). Colloq. phrase *same
here* as an exclamation of agreement is from 1895.*Same difference* curious
way to say "equal," is attested from 1945.





*some* <http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=some> *[image: Look up some
at Dictionary.com]* <http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=some>

O.E. *sum* "some," from P.Gmc. **sumas* (cf. O.S., O.Fris., O.H.G. *sum*,
O.N. *sumr*, Goth. *sums*), from PIE base **sem-* "one, as one" (cf. Skt. *
samah* "even, level, similar, identical;" Gk.
*hamo-*<http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=hamo->;
see *same* <http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=same>).

"The word has had greater currency in English than in the other Teutonic
languages, in some of which it is now restricted to dialect use, or
represented only by derivatives or compounds, as WFris. *sommige, somlike*,
Du. *sommige*(also *somtiids, sommijlen* 'sometimes'), LG *sömige* (G. dial.
*summige*)." [OED]

Meaning "remarkable" is attested from 1808, Amer.Eng. colloquial. A
possessive form is attested from 1565, but always was rare. Many combination
forms (*somewhat*, *sometime*, *somewhere*) were in M.E. but often written
as two words till 17-19c.; *somehow* is from 1664 (first attested in phrase
*somehow or other*); *something* once was very common as an adv. (cf.
*something
like*).*Somebody* in the sense of "important person" dates from 1566. *
Somewhen* is rare and since 19c. used almost exclusively in combination with
more common compounds. *Get some* "have sexual intercourse" is attested 1899
in a quote attributed to Abe Lincoln from c.1840.


----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

I think you're right, Diederik.

Although it is not very specific about it, the OED implies that there may be
a basic relationship between the two.

But there are very early divergent forms, which may or may not involve *
ablaut*:

Indo-European: *semo 'some' vs. *somo 'equal', 'level'
Sanskrit: सम (sama) ‘any’, ‘every’ vs. समा (samā) 'equal', 'level', 'same'
Greek: ἁμο- (hamo-) ‘some-’ vs. ὁμόσ (homós) 'same'



Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
Seattle, USA



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