LL-L "Grammar" 2010.01.11 (02) [EN]

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L O W L A N D S - L - 11 January 2010 - Volume 02
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From: Sandy Fleming <sandy at fleimin.demon.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2010.01.10 (04) [EN]

We did say "The Ukraine" in English until it became a country separate
 from the USSR. I found it quite difficult to make the switch.

There is, of course, "The Netherlands" and "The Shetlands", although of
course there tends to be this thing with people who live there taking
exception to the usual way of speaking about it in another language. As
I see it, plural islands and plural territories take "the". The
Hebrides, the Scillies (another one that the natives tend to object to)
and so on.

We also have "The Alsace" and "The Lebanon" gradually dying out in
English.

Sandy Fleming
http://scotstext.org/

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From: Diederik Masure <didimasure at hotmail.com>
 Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2010.01.10 (02) [EN]

On articles:
The list Ron gave earlier today of country names opposes (Low)German d(i)e
Ukrain(e) to Dutch Oekraïne; however until not too long ago it was not
uncommon in Dutch to use *de Oekraïne*. This was before it turned into an
independent republic tho.
Before it changed name to Zaire, Belgians used to call Congo *de Kongo*.

Maybe it has something to do with regions rather than countries? The now
independent Congo is called just *Congo*. If people still use *de Kongo* with
an article it refers to the colonial Belgian-Congo, mostly. Also the
provinces of West- and East-Flanders are in Belgium often referred to as
"the Flanders", i.e. *de Vlaanders*. This will always refer to the region of
historical Flanders (the county); never to the modern autonomous federation
of franconian speaking Belgium which includes other historical regions as
well.

Not sure if this is just a wild guess or if there's any truth in it, but
using the article in Dutch usually 1) sounds slightly old-fashioned or 2)
refers to more historical regions and 3) seems hardly used about sovereign
countries.
The only counter-example I can think of is *de Soedan* (now usually written
*Sudan* and without article) which isn't that common (anymore?) either. But
this might stem from the colonial age as well.

A last Dutch example I can think of are regions like *de Balticum *(seldom?)
and *de Balkan*, or *de Provence *in France. I'm sure there used to be more
of them in older phases of Dutch though.

Diederik

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Grammar

I agree that the rule of thumb is "regions with article; countries without
article," Diederik.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
Seattle, USA

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