LL-L "Language proficiency" 2010.06.27 (03) [EN]

Sun Jun 27 20:20:10 UTC 2010

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*L O W L A N D S - L - 27 June 2010 - Volume 03
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From: Antero Helasvuo <antero.helasvuo at welho.com>

Subject: Language proficiency

Ron:
"I wonder if there is are differences in switching and interpreting between
two languages with regard to their relatedness or lack thereof.
It seems to me that in my case interference is strongest the more closely
related the two languages are, especially where there is a fair or high
degree of mutual intelligibility.
Mari (Estonian and English (and Russian?)) and Antero (Finnish, Swedish,
English, Dutch) might be able to shed some light on this."

This could be a complicated matter. We could for instance assume, that
actually there are no languages just countless different ways of saying the
same things. I think little children experience it that way: Daddy says it
("I'm hungry") so, mommy says it so and the doggie says it so. Only later
comes the realization, that daddy speaks Russian, mommy Finnish and the
doggie... well. People who grow up or spend a lot of time in a multilingual
environment switch languages without even realizing it in the middle of a
conversation. On a marketplace you might meet people who speak different
dialects. An empathetic person changes their way of speaking depending on
who they speak anyway.

You hear about villages in some parts of Southern Africa, where the language
is different in places relatively close to each other. Somehow they still
manage to communicate with each other. Being language conscious I personally
find it difficult to speak German that I constantly mix up with Dutch that I
know far better. Another matter is of course the "false friends" that cause
confusion between closely related languages. Ulvi Wirén ha compiled a
hilarious booklet "Hääd pulmapäeva! (Hyvää hääpäivää)" on false friends
between Estonian and Finnish.

-- 
Antero Helasvuo
Luutnantinpolku 9 C 20
00410 HELSINKI
FINLAND

TEL +358 9 5872345
antero.helasvuo at welho.com

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From: Jacqueline Bungenberg de Jong <Dutchmatters at comcast.net>

Subject: LL-L "Language proficiency" 2010.06.27 (01) [EN]

Hello Vlad, Sandy, Ron, Leslie and both Pauls,

Let me add my two cents to this interesting conversation….

My experience is that there are two different ways of being fluent in two -
or more – languages. It must have to do with when we learn the other
language. English is my second language. I was born in the Netherlands, and
although I heard a fair amount of English when I was a child, I never *
learned* it until I went to High school. I arrived in the US in 1959 to go
to Graduate school and, although I am fluent, I am still learning the
language. When asked, I say that I have two languages. For me, these two
languages each have their own sphere, or if you want to express this in a
more pedestrian way they each live in their own drawer in the linguistic
bookcase in my head. I will dream in English or in Dutch depending on the
subject of my dream. When I went to the hospital for a minor operation, some
of the medical students and members of the nursing staff (who knew me
because I worked in the same hospital) asked me questions in several
languages while I was coming out of my anesthesia induced coma and I
answered them in the language they spoke to me. When I am interpreting or
when I am working on a translation I have the feeling that sentences in the
one language are changed into some form of emotional energy. It is as if
this energy travels outside my brain and comes back in to another place
where it is translated into the necessary vocabulary, grammar, syntax and
the emotionality to add the necessary idiomatic quality to the sentence,
which then get spoken or written down. I am in some kind of a trance when I
am doing it. A couple of years ago I had to travel to Anchorage, Alaska to
do the simultaneous translation in a court case involving a Dutch company.
The hearings went on for four days and when they were finally finished it
was Friday afternoon at about 4.30 and I had to make a run for the airport.
I hailed a cab, but was bewildered by the reaction of the driver to my
request to take him to the airport and a conversation that took place.
Finally, after about 10 minutes it dawned upon me that I kept translating
everything he said into Dutch instead of giving him an answer in English….

My daughter, however, was raised bilingually. Her Father spoke English with
her and I spoke Dutch. There were Dutch family friends and American family
friends. But Tamara can do something that I consider magic. She can switch
from one language to the next without losing the syntax of the sentence. I
have asked her to explain how she does it, but she does not know. She also
would never translate a Dutch idiom into English or vice versa and I would
not give you a penny for every time I have done that. She seems to have the
two languages in one drawer, but each morpheme is tagged as either Dutch or
English. I wonder whether Paul’s nephew can shine some light on that
phenomenon.

And finally:  Vlad if you want to publish your collection of
multi-linguistic tidbits, you have my permission to use mine. One request
though; let me know when and where I can read itI

Jacqueline BdJ

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From: From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>

Subject: Language proficiency

This weekend I talked with a man who was born and raised in Panama. He told
me that for quite a few childhood years he just thought he believed that the
way they spoke in his home and among certain family friends was simply a
“homey” variety of Castilian (Spanish), the language “out there.” It was
only when he realized that those people that shared his home variety were
Jewish that he learned that he was dealing with Judeo-Castilian a.k.a.
Ladino a.k.a. Judeo-Spanish. Knowing both languages, the differences seemed
insignificant to him, though Spanish speakers would not be able to
understand many Ladino expressions.

His awareness came about only when he realized that his home sphere was that
of a minority.

Language information:
http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/ladino-info.php

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
Seattle, USA

P.S.: Vlad, you may quote.

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