LL-L "Language varieties" 2011.04.06 (01) [EN]

[Lowlands-L List]

=====================================================
L O W L A N D S - L - 06 April 2011 - Volume 01
lowlands.list at gmail.com - http://lowlands-l.net/
Posting: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org
Archive: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html
Encoding: Unicode (UTF-08)
Language Codes: lowlands-l.net/codes.php
=====================================================



From: heatherrendall at tiscali.co.uk <heatherrendall at tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2011.04.05 (01) [EN]

from Heather Rendall heatherrendall at tiscali.co.uk

Pat asked Paul: are you saying native speakers do not speak their language
well?

In support of Paul, I would instance

" between you and I"  or " for John and I" which is now so accepted by the
British that even Oliver in The Archers was heard to say " between Caroline
and I" and if a man of Oliver's standing and education says it...... !!! (
Tongue firmly in cheek there!)

But just listen to the Today progamme: James Naughtie is for ever using 'I'
after a preposition and I 've even heard. I am sure, John Humphries doing
it.

In the 90s the emphasis was moved so that to conTRIBute became to CONtribute
as also did disTRIBute to DIStribute. I giggle everytime I hear someone
trying this with aTRIBute  ATribute ATRIBute ATRIbute they are never quite
sure.

I think there are various strands here which are getting confused.

a) conversational language is syntactically stop and start and restart and
change and does not look like flowing prose when transcibed

b) written language can range from the vernacular to high flown prose from
the deliberatley ungrammatical to the highly, and sometimes over-, correct

c) "A little learning is a dangerous thing". Persons who believe that there
is a superior version of language to ape, often lack confidence about their
own and tend therefore to overgeneralise something learned i.e. " Say "John
and I" not "John and me" ..... as the subject of the verb" and the last bit
gets lost or not understood so the first bit gets over-used in the belief
that it is correct.

I have a dear friend who will insist on using 'whom' at every chance. I am
sure he does it to sound 'correct' but in fact more often than not he uses
it incorrectly. Same reason as above

So Paul is right in as much as there are (some) native speakers who do not
know their mother tongue well enough to avoid using incorrect words or
phrases or even sequencing under the misguided belief that they ( the
errors) are correct.

40 years ago I remember correcting a French student from a Haute Ecole
because he had used amener of a thing rather than apporter. Nowadays the
French use amener of things a great deal! Language is forever changing and
often because an error becomes habit and engrained and so part of a new
level / shape of that language.

But its eventual accpetance does not change the fact that it is based on
either an error or a misunderstanding.
Heather

Worcester UK



=========================================================
Send posting submissions to lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org.
Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
Send commands (including "signoff lowlands-l") to
listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or lowlands.list at gmail.com
http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
http://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/group.php?gid=118916521473498
===============================================================
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/lowlands-l/attachments/20110406/0ad9fb96/attachment.htm>