LL-L "Language varieties" 2011.07.09 (02) [AF-EN]

Sat Jul 9 14:48:08 UTC 2011

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 L O W L A N D S - L - 09 July 2011 - Volume 02
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 From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <roerd096 at PLANET.NL>
 Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2011.07.08 (07) [EN]

Than you'd best also show them this clip: traditional dancing of the
Maroons. Africans will find the similarities in dances maybe just as
important than those in languages.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXjpQNNh9_o&feature=related

Btw the West African slaves transported to Surinam came from:

13,5% from Gambia to Eastern Ivory Coast (so Gambia, S Senegal, Guinea
Bissau, Guinea, Sierra Leone, Liberia, IC)
18,5% from the Eastern Ivory Coast and Ghana.
37 %   from Togo to Gabon (Togo, Benin, Nigeria, Cameroon, Equitorial
Guinea, Gabon)
31 %   from Congo and Angola (Congo Brazzaville, DRC, Angola), these slaves
were called "Loandas" and had a bad name

Slaves from those four macroregions had contacts and friendships mostly in
their own group and were often hostile towards people from other groups.

The people in the clips I sent the other day reminded me the most of
Congolese people

From: Pat Barrett pbarrett at cox.net
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2011.07.08 (04) [EN]

As I recall, these maroon (escaped slaves) communities were peopled
principally by Ashanti people of the Akan culture group in today's Ghana.
Their language was Twi (I ran into a couple of Twi speakers at the gym a few
weeks ago).

In order to check this before sending it, I googled Bush Negroes and found
nothing about the origin of these people other than "West Africa". The Akan
culture is distinctive and Akan music can be easily distinguished from other
West African traditions. The reason I'm saying all this is to indicate the
failure of "the google" to give us essentials. It's as if Afrikaans speakers
were to be described with no reference to their Dutch origins.

Just to get a taste of how disjointed all this "information" is, note the
various origins given for the word "maroon".

Thanks for introducing us to these wonderful clips.
I'll pass them on to the Ashanti boys at the gym; they will be amazed.
Decades ago I did the same for a Yoruba friend who could not believe the
Cuban recordings in his language e.g. Babalu Aye.
Pat Barrett pbarrett at cox.net
http://ideas.lang-learn.us/barrett.php

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From: M.-L. Lessing marless at gmx.de
 Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2011.07.08 (01) [EN]

Hello Ingmar, now don't you fancy that so sounding a name like your's, so
full of character, could be easily forgot! (Character, not characters!)
:-)))

I like that Surinam Dutch and seem to understand it better than European
Dutch. The videos gave me an "Aha-Erlebnis", because I have a Dutch friend
who is a native of Surinam, and I always thought her Dutch more clear that
that of other Dutch speakers and even her German less accent-ridden,
although I only rarely see her (only when she visits the Evangelische
Kirchentag in Germany, and that is rare, because she depends on a
wheelchair, so we only write letters, old fashioned paper letters). Thank
you for the links!

Marlou

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From: Paul Finlow-Bates wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk
 Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2011.07.08 (01) [EN]

Hi Ingmar,

I certainly remember you! In fact I brought your name up a few weeks ago in
connection with the Middelsprake language (I still have the link you
posted).

Paul
Derby
England

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From: Mark and Ruth Dreyer mrdreyer at lantic.net
 Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2011.07.08 (01) [EN]

Hello Ingmar!

Subject: LL-L "Language varieties"

No, I remember you well, & also your Middelsprake.

Mind you I have a sneaky advantage, in Afrikaans. With the Taal I can read
it for the most part glibly & fluently, with passing note taken of
orthography & sound-changes. I suppose the same applies to most of the
dialects of Littoral Norwestern Europe. Going back to my childhood pursuits
I find it particularly satisfying that it seems to draw in Teutonic tongues
east of West-Netherfrankish (German 'knacked' my efforts in that direction).

Just for my personal deluctation I shall assay a parallel translation of
your Middelsprake into Afrikaans:
Middelspraak (kort: MS) is een kunstlig maked spraak dat is basered up de
wichtigest levend Germanisch sprake.
'Middelspraak'  (afkorting MS) is 'n kunstaal gegrond op die meerderheid
lewendige Dietse tale.
De grammatika is simpel on regelmatig, wat make dat licht to lerne.
Die grammatika is eenvoudig en reëlmatig, sodoende maklik om te leer.
Man kan forgelike Middelspraak mid Interlingua, de kunstlig spraak basered
up Latin/Romanisch,
'n Mens kan Middelspraak met Interlingua vergelyk, die kunstaal gegrond op
Latyns/Romanch,
in dat for de meest sprekers af een oller meer Germanisch sprake, mennig af
een MS tekst schal wese forstaan direkt,
deurdat die meerderheid sprekers van een of meer Dietse tale sal menige MS
teks direk verstaan
uter enig to lerne fyrst. De levend Germanisch sprake, uter Engelisch, have
rund 170 miljon sprekers.
sonder om dit vooraf te studeer. Die lewendige Dietse tale, Engels
uitgesonder, het rondom 170 million sprekers.

For Engelisch sprekers MS is okso mennig lichter to lerne dan, saege,
Duetisch, Nederlandisch oller Swedisch.
Vir die Engelssprekendes is MS ook baie makliker om te leer as byvoorbeeld
Duits, Nederlands of Sweeds.
MS have een regelmatig spelling, aleen regelmatig wirk-worde, aleen een enig
kyn on een enig fal,
MS het reëlmatige spelling, uitsluitlik reëmatige werkwoorde, uitsluitlik
een grammatikale casus,
regelmatig meertal on kenne nik een "umlaut".
reëlmatige meervoud en geen 'umlaut'.
Du kan finde uut meer af de spraak's grammatika, wordschat, tekste,
luud-dokuments etc. in de "Files" afdeling.
u Kan nog meer oor die taal se grammatika, woordeskat, tekste, klankleërs
ens. opspoor in die 'Files' afdeling.
Middelspraak is een af de variants af Folkspraak
Middelspraak is maar een uit 'n verskeidenheid van Volkspraak.

I could push the Afrikaans even closer, but then it would sound clumsy and
awkward, which Middelspraak does not, and Afrikaans need not.

Alas, Ingmar, James, Ingmar has it right. One can't do the same with the
same ease in (Modern) English, it has gone too far its own way. But I'd like
to see it done in German!

Totsiens, Ingmar!
Mark

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