LL-L "Etymology" 2011.06.05 (04) [DE-EN-NDS-NL]

Sun Jun 5 19:30:35 UTC 2011

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L O W L A N D S - L - 05 June 2011 - Volume 04
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From: Marcus Buck list at marcusbuck.org
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2011.06.05 (02) [DE-EN

From: M.-L. Lessing marless at gmx.de

            delicious soy bean sprouts

            Maybe they will never find "the source"

Delicious sprouts? Unfortunate timing ;-) An hour ago the NDR broadcast the
press conference where they announced that the most likely source is not
cucumbers, tomatoes or salad, but ... sprouts.

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>

            ... or a German loan from times before the Middle High German
diphthongization.

But in that case it should have gone through *Dutch* diphthongization (> **
kijm*), or?

In
<http://books.google.de/books?id=DCGDjtuKUfEC&pg=PA79&dq=%2BDiftongering+%2Bij&hl=de&ei=3rrrTd2lEIWd-wa8wJDADw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CEEQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=%2BDiftongering%20%2Bij&f=false><http://books.google.de/books?id=DCGDjtuKUfEC&pg=PA79&dq=%2BDiftongering+%2Bij&hl=de&ei=3rrrTd2lEIWd-wa8wJDADw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CEEQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=%2BDiftongering%20%2Bij&f=false>I
read that the process in the Dutch language began in Brabant in the
14th
century and ended in Holland in the 16th century.

The dtv-Atlas Deutsche Sprache, p. 146, says that the German
diphthongization began in Carinthia in the 12th century and ended in the
Rhineland in the 16th century. The Alemannic region never participated in
the diphthongization. So depending on the exact time and place it could have
been loaned from German to Dutch without going through the process in any of
both languages. Another possible diphthongization-preventing influence
mentioned in the entry at Etymologiebank is Latin cyma, which means 'sprout'
(these damn sprouts, always mingling with stuff).

Marcus Buck

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From: Henno Brandsma hennobrandsma at hetnet.nl
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2011.06.05 (02) [DE-EN

From: Theo Homan theohoman at yahoo.com
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2011.06.04 (06) [EN]

From: R. F. Hahn
[...]

First of all, I am surprised the Dutch word is kiem rather than expected
*kijm. Is it a Saxon loan?

The Herkunftsduden claims that this word group exists only in the "German
and Dutch" area.
[...]

Hi,

I would like to put icel. keim(u)r = flavour in this word-family.
And I have the impression that Herr Duden didn't speak oldicelandic.

And the old root would then be something like *ki.

Concerning Dutch kiem vs. *kijm: I hope that some wise people can have a
little talk about this.

vr. gr.
Theo Homan

I looked it up in my trusty Etymologisch Woordenboek van het Nederlands.
I assumed that it was influence from eastern dialects (as "boer" [farmer]
for expected "buur",
"poes" for expected (and actually attested!) "puis" [cat, pussycat]) etc.
I was sort of right, I suppose:

<quote>
kiem zn. 'plantbeginsel in rijp zaad'
Onl. kīmo 'kiem' [10e eeuw; W. Ps] (Henno: Wachtendonker Psalmen, Onl = Old
Dutch); mnl 'kyme 'id'
[1477; Teuth]; vnnl kiem, kieme 'kiem, stek, loot, spruit' [1599, Kil.]
Erfwoord, ontwikkeld uit Proto-Germaans *kīma- 'kiem'. De vroege
geschiedenis in het Nederlands is echter onduidelijk. Onl. kīmo zou leiden
to mnl. *kijme, nnl. *kijm, maar deze woorden zijn niet geattesteerd. Voor
vnnl. kiem (door Kiliaan nog Duits en Saksisch genoemd) kan daarom misschien
ontlening aan Middelnederduits of Middelhoogduits kīme worden aangenomen, of
invloed van een Oost-Nederlands dialect. Ook invloed van Latijn cyma
'spruit' (ontleend aan Grieks kūma) is niet uitgesloten.
</quote>

Then follows a list of Old Germanic forms, explaining that the root is *ki-
and the ending is -ma, which is also used in "bloem", "galm", "zoom".
*ki comes from proto-germanic "kei-", 'opspringen, openspringen'
plus some other formations and derivations, and Indo-European cognate words,
like Armenian "cil", spruit, loot, Latvian "žiêdêt", 'bloeien'
from Indo-European *ģiH(dh)-

Regards, Groetnis,

Henno Brandsma

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From: Hannelore Hinz <hannehinz at t-online.de> <hannehinz at t-online.de>
Subject: Lexicon

Hallo Ron un Lowlanners.

Ick heff Glück hatt.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keim

... näumt "Stadien" von "Keim".

So hett mi dat ok Ch. verklort.

Jedein "Keim" kann Läwen tügen (erzeugen) för Planten, Dierten un Minschen.

Dat Wurd "Keim" is all lang' begäng'.
(Mikrobe (Keim) kann auch ein Krankheitserreger sein, wie  z.B. EHEC.)

*Mikrobe: *Die seit dem 19. Jh. bezeugte, aus dem *Frz. (frz: *microbe)
übernommende Bezeichnung für mikroskopisch kleine pflanzliche oder tierische
Lebewesen (Mikroorganismen) ist eine gelehrte Neubildung des französischen
Militärarztes Charles Sédillot (1804 - 1883) aus *griech. *mikrós "klein"
(vgl. *mikro...., Mikro...) *und *griech. *bios "Leben" (vgl. *bio...,
Bio...)
*DUDEN 7 Herkunftswörterbuch.

Na ja, dat wier't.

Hartlich.

Hanne

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