LL-L "Grammar" 2011.03.09 (01) [EN-NDS]

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From: Mark and Ruth Dreyer <mrdreyer at lantic.net>
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2011.03.08 (01) [EN]



Dear Ron & Co.



*Subject:* LL-L "Grammar"



Ron wrote:



The use of “different” (or verschiedene) with numerals seems justified if it
emphasized that the items are of different types (as opposed to being
identical); e.g.



* She baked three different cakes.  (= She baked three different types of
cakes.)

But in most cases the use of this structure seems ungrammatical; e.g.

* There are four different languages in Switzerland.



As At has pointed out, the same usage is manifest in Afrikaans, tho' we are
not limited to only one term of distinction, as for 'different' in English:
Verskillende, verskeie, ens.



Ron, I know some purists of language have long taken against redundancies;
however superficial exposure to almost any language shows an abundance of
the same. I believe certain redundancies are necessary to effective
communication. For example, ambient noise may momentarily block out the
single negative in an English sentence, or even worse, German, totally
altering or even reversing the meaning. Afrikaans & French with 'nie - nie'
& ne - pas & ne - rian' both are one up on English & German on that account.
Just a tad nearer to your example is the Afrikaans way of itemising for
example livestock by number, as in 'drie honderd stucks beeste' = 'three
hundred (items of) cattle'. Now also for 'drie verskillende oplossings' &c.



In all three examples the construction presents extra data supplementing
without altering the content of the message. If for any reason coms
are interrupted the data captured may offer more in the way of recovering
the complete communication: All to the good. Another point to bear in mind,
such constructions formalise the word-order (in an analytic language) giving
warning of specific information to follow - very important.



These redundancies, I am sure you will agree, are different in kind more
than degree to others, for example; 'The Thompsons have had a pair of
twins!' & 'I ain't done noth'n!' The former is an example of a simple
unnecessary redundancy, contributes nothing to lucidity, & in some extreme
cases actually need to be worked out.  The latter is of course simply
internally contradictory. Purists are justified in their hostility to the
same.



Yrs,

Mark



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From: Hannelore Hinz <hannehinz at t-online.de> <hannehinz at t-online.de>
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2011.03.07 (01) [EN]

Leiw' Lowlanners,

nah de grote Diskeschoon (Utspraak) tau dis'Saak heff ick mi noch 'n eins 'n
Kopp makt, also nahdacht.

Sie *buk *Kuchen.

*Präteritum*/Aktiv/ Indikativ: ich buk - du bukst -  er/sie/es buk - wir
buken - ihr bukt - sie buken.

Nu mien Fraag: woans künn man dit up nedderdüütsch henbögen, konjugieren.

De Plattsnackers seggen mihrstensdeils leiwer: *ick heff Kauken backt*, denn
* ick backte Kauken *is hier nich so begäng. Dat is oewerhaupt so ein
Eigenoort, dat de Plattüütschen väl *ick heff *usw. seggen.

Dit wüür mi mal verlangen.

Ick heff gistern an'n Frugensdag  as Fru för Frugens up de Treckfiedel
upspält, sei harden mi anglesiert (engagiert).

Hartlich.

Hanne



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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Tradition



Beste Hanne,

Na mien Dinken is NDS “backen” swack, nich stark as *backen* in’t Düütsche:

Nutied: ik back, du backst, he backt, wi backt ~ backen

Verlẹdene Tied: ik back, du backst, he back, wi backen
Afslatene Tied: ik heff backt, du hest backt, he hett backt, wi hebbt backt



Grötens,
Reinhard/Ron
Seattle, USA



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