LL-L "Botanica" 2012.08.10 (01) [DE-EN-NDS]

Fri Aug 10 20:31:50 UTC 2012

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 L O W L A N D S - L - 10 August 2012 - Volume 01
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From: Paul Finlow-Bates wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk
Subject: LL-L "History" 2012.08.09 (04) [EN]

Might be a similar thing to "turkey". Why is a North American bird named
after a country in the Middle East? When the bird first appeared in
England, it was strange, exotic, unknown. From somewhere mysterious.  That
means east. Turkey will do.
The berry, likewise, was from somewhere "far away over the Sea". Ships
coming from strange lands would often have come via the Cape Colony, and if
they were coming from western South America, that long way might well be
easier than running the gauntlet of The Horn.

Most people's idea of world geography was hazy at best. In my experience,
not much has changed, despite the fact that most Westerners have the world
at their fingertips, literally.

Paul

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From: Hannelore Hinz <hannehinz at t-online.de> <hannehinz at t-online.de>
Subject: LL-L "History" 2012.08.09 (04) [EN]

Hallo all' Lowlanners.

Hier nu wat "*in other German dialects"
*Tauierst nu dit:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stachelbeere

*Stickelbeer *f. Stachelbeere, Frucht von ribes grossularia: uva crispa
'Stickelbeere'.
*Hurrah! Pankooken mit Stickelbärn!

**Stickelbeeren *im *bunt Water *(Erntebräuche von Richard Wossidlo):
III. Das bunte Wasser u.ä.
Wenn de Meihers un Binners an den ihrsten Abend in de Roggenaust na Huus
kemen, würd bi Dargun-Gnoien rüm un in Mäkelborg-Strelitz dat "bunt Water"
maakt. - Bi uns würden dree  Waschbalgen hensett't: in een keem Nettel, in
de tweet *Stickelbeeren*, in de drüdd 'ne Buttel Brammwien. Denn würd 'n
Dook vör de Ogen bunnen un blinnerwies' müßten se togriepen. Wenn een in'n
Nettel greep, denn güng 't Lachen los.

Lit.: Wossidlo/Teuchert:
*Stickelbeerbusch* m. Stachelbeerenbusch. Magisches Mittel, wenn es nicht
buttern will: *'n lütt Stück von 'n Stickelbeerbusch afsniden un int
Botterfatt smieten *(RoBörg).
Rda. zu einem unehelich Geborenen: *du hest achter 'n Stickelbeerenbusch
lägen *bist unbekannter Herkunft;  *Stickelbeerbusch  *im Rätsel der Kopf
des Menschen wegen der Behaartheit.
Syn.: *Stickelbeerstruk, Stickelbusch, Stäk-, Stickelduurn.
*Stickelbeerenhäg' f. Hecke von Stachelbeersträuchern;
Stickelbeerkranz m. Kranz aus Dornen vom Stachelbeerstrauch; er wurde den
Mägden von den Knechten unter das Bettlaken gelegt, um sie zu foppen.

*Stickelbeerboort* m. stacheliger Bart;
stickelbeerbunt bunt, vom Gefieder, im Reim vom Kuckuck: *Kukuk wier so
stickelbunt.

**Stickelitschen *Pl. Stachelbeeren: *tau de Stickelbeeren säden wi Jung's
Stickelitschen.

*... un jüst kümmt mi dat *Lickmünnen *(leckerig, lüstern) an, wenn ick an
*Stachelbeertorte mit Baiserhaube *denken dau.

*Stachelbeere *(17. Jh.) ist  laut DUDEN 7 eine Zusammensetzung
von Stachel und Beere (dit man blotsen so jichtensbi vermellt).

*Stachelbeere*, f. Stick-/Stickel-/Kruus-/Krüüsbeer [ę], pl. -beren [ę] /
beern [ę]
Lit.: G. HARTE . J. HARTE
HOCHDEUTSCH PLATTDEUTSCHES WÖRTERBUCH

So, dat langt nu woll...

Hanne

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From: Roger Thijs rogerthijs at yahoo.com
Subject: LL-L Traditions

One of the common toys (weapons?) in my childhood was elder pipes. We toke
a straight part of wood, about 3” long, pushed the “cheese” (internal core)
out with an iron thread. Our bullets were little chewed paper bolls.
That pipe was apparently called “*klapbus*” in Northern France, and a
combination of two grains was used for the bullets. It was referred to
today in the Hazebroek local edition of “La Voix du Nord” (see attachement
p9..pdf)
In my local Limburgish we called the pipe “*toeteleer*”, I guess since it
could also be turned into a musical pipe.
“Elder” is “vlier”  in Dutch, and we had a lot of it in the place I was
born “Vliermaal”, a municipality that did not steal its name.
Vliermaal was once the head of a county with that name, and became later
the seat of the court of appeal of the county of Loon.  The high court was
relocated to the town of Hasselt in 1469, but it kept its name "of
Vliermaal" and continued to have seat in Vliermaal for lower justice. When
Loon became territorialwise a fief of Liège, this court did not follow,
since it was “reichsunmittelbar”. Several decisions ended in highest appeal
for the “Reichskammergericht”.
https://inventaris.onroerenderfgoed.be/dibe/geheel/21154
I was born in a square farm in the center of the village. When renovating
in the sixties we found some bricks in an old fireplace. These got some
attention in the press. I’m living in the Brussels area now, but I still
cannot separate from the stupid bricks I keep in a box (standing in the way
all time). (see attachment hs.pdf).
As for the elder jelly our family made with the berries, opinions were
divided in our family about the medical working. Some thought it was ideal
against constipation, other thought it was healing against diarrhea. Maybe
they were both right and it had a stabilizing effect eventually.
I stayed somehow obsessed with the plant, I don’t have it in my garden
though, but I got a branch iron-forged by an artisanal forger Walter
Houtmans and I still have that exposed in the hall of my house.
Walter is sun of the former Actor Robert Marcel
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Marcel
Vliermaal was also written Fliedermaal in old texts, but our vlier had
nothing to do with the High German Flieder. The Dutch for Flieder is
“sering” (lilac). We also had some lilac trees in our garden in Vliermaal,
one with blue, the other with white lilacs. They were part of another
tradition: we had a traditional “kermis” the third Sunday of May, and on
kermis Monday the graves of family members were visited. It was the
blooming time of the lilacs and traditionally blue lilacs were put on the
graves (rather not the white, since the turning into brown was too visible
with white when the flowers were aging).

Dutch: *Gewone vlier*
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gewone_vlier
http://www.soortenbank.nl/soorten.php?soortengroep=flora_nl&id=2498&menuentry=soorten
German: Schwarzer Holunder
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sambucus_nigra
English: Elderberry,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sambucus_nigra
French: Sureau noir
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sambucus_nigra

German *Flieder*
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flieder
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemeiner_Flieder
Dutch: Sering
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syringa_vulgaris
http://www.soortenbank.nl/soorten.php?soortengroep=flora_nl&id=2660&menuentry=soorten
English: Common Lilac
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syringa_vulgaris
French: lilas
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syringa_vulgaris

Regards,
Roger

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Botanica

Roger,

Traditionally, two plants' names are muddled in with each other in Northern
Germany, certainly in Low Saxon and to a degree in German dialects with Low
Saxon substrata.

When we say *Fleder* [ˈflɛˑɪdɝ] (German *Flieder*) you can't always be sure
if we mean lilac or elder.

Lilac (Syringa):
Low Saxon:
Blaue Wiern (Dithmarschen)
Blausirien (Insel Pellworm)
Blauwiern (Dithmarschen)
Buschboom (Nordfriesl./Schlesw.)
Eddelzierinjen (Nordhannover)
Fleder (Norddeutschland)
Fleren (Langfoerden/Oldenb. in O.)
Flerer (Vorpommern)
Floeoer(e)n (Ostfriesland)

[http://www.blumen-evers.de/]

Many Low Saxon speakers call lilac *Syringen* [zyˈrɪˑŋː], *Sireen*[ziˈrɛɪˑn] or
*Zirienjen* [ʦiˈriːnjɛn] (cf. Danish *syren*, Norwegian *syrin*, Swedish *
syren*, Finnish *syreenit*, Estonian *sirel*).

However, when it comes to the berries of the elder (*Sambucus*), North
Germans tend to call them *Fliederbeeren* in German and *Flederbeern* etc.
The actual plant (which is interesting in folk traditions) has many local
Low Saxon names; e.g.

Allhorn
Büssenholt
Ellhörn
Ellhoorn
Fledder
Fledderboom
Fledderbeerboom
Flederbusch
Goosfleder
Halern
Holder(busch)
Holler(busch)
Hollern
Hollunder
Hollunner
Huller(busch)
Keikeboom
Keiliken
Keilkeboom
Kelkenbush
Kiddeboom

[http://www.blumen-evers.de/]

Cf. Danish *hyld*, Norwegian *hyll*, Swedish *f**läder, *Icelandic *yllir*,
Sater Frisian* Kiddeboom**, *West Frisian *flear*, Estonian *leeder*.

Note also Scots *bourtree* and *black-bunnet* for elder, and *leylock* for
lilac.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
Seattle, USA

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